Bay area's problems are best solved with having some kick ass public transport which afaik nobody is working on. IMO, that is a real game changer as opposed to hyperloop, electric cars :/ Most european countries have this already and they are such great places to visit and live.
Is Hyperloop the future of travel?
121–130 of 178 posts
Re: Is Hyperloop the future of travel?
#122Earlier quoted context omitted.
What does "better" mean? Outside of governmental regulations, the market is what determines progress and there isn't much push by consumers for environmental impacts. They just want cheap and reliable transit. Price also wins over speed (and it's been show things like wifi have a greater effect on travel comfort than speed). Unless you cut down the travel time significantly, it just doesn't matter. And at those speed…
> the market is what determines progress and there isn't much push by consumers for environmental impacts. That's only because externalities haven't been included in the pricing. What about the $14t that it will take to relocate people displaced by rising oceans? The repair costs from the increasingly-common severe weather events? There are real costs of climate change that aren't being accounted for and will have to…
Sure, by future generations. Do you think we're suddenly going to start pricing in the externalities of the whole world for train tickets?
The market won't do this, it's human behavior.
Re: Is Hyperloop the future of travel?
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I think you know you've got a winning idea when the esteemed commenters on HN all dismiss it out of hand. Please don't diss the community as a rhetorical device. There's no substance in that, and since you're also an esteemed commenter on HN, it's false.
I understand what you're getting at, and you make a fair point, but you really don't think there's a trend on HN where pretty much every idea is called obvious or terrible by some of the most popular comments on a given submission? I was hoping to put some red ink on the trend and maybe curtail it slightly, for what that's worth.
> you really don't think there's a trend on HN
It's really hard to assess that objectively because the cognitive biases affecting such perceptions are so strong. Certainly we don't want HN to be that way and try to nudge it in more fruitful directions. But the way to fight an undesirable pattern on HN is not with another undesirable pattern.
Re: Is Hyperloop the future of travel?
#124I'm still wondering how a neighbourhood will react if you want to build two massive tubes through it. I can't imagine people will like those tubes. Yes, you could put them underground but this will increase your costs.
Wasn't one of the ideas to put them through the existing highway infrastructure, elevated in the meridian?
Hyperlink turning radius (at top speed) is on the order of 100s of km, due to g-forces. You don't have much routing flexibility.
Following the kinks of a 100 kph expressway is likely not feasible.
Alternatives are to slow down massively as you approach / traverse urban areas, but this further increases trip time, changes acceleration and energy needs, and reduces the already abysmally low net passenger throughput.
Re: Is Hyperloop the future of travel?
#125There's a palpable excitement around Hyperloop and I can't wait to know if this will reshape our world or not. One of the largest problem I can see is not technical. The consensus is that a "standard" Hyperloop track (between 2 cities, 300 to 800km apart) would have a ~1,500 passengers/hour max capacity. High speed rail, such as Eurostar, would be around 10,000 passengers/hour. Even if Hyperloop managed to get built…
>Maybe the business plan for passenger planes and trains was also that hazy back then? Except flying is fast, safe, and cheap. Our problem is airport design and airport security. Fix those so we get on a plane in 20 minutes instead of two hours and everyone will be happy.
You also need to get to the airport and from the airport. Airports are usually quite far from city centers.
Re: Is Hyperloop the future of travel?
#126No, it's not.
There's also the Vactrain concept. Several variants were pursued from 1914 on, with Robert Salter of RAND writing a couple of proposals in the 1970s.
The idea's not new, has been seriously explored previously, and has been rejected or failed on technical, cost, political, practical, and economic grounds.
Some forms of local or highly-dedicated application, possibly. But for general use, no.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vactrain
Salter, Robert M. (August 1972), The Very High Speed Transit System, RAND Corporation
https://www.rand.org/pubs/papers/P4874.html
Salter, Robert M. (February 1978), Trans-Planetary Subway Systems: A Burgeoning Capability, RAND Corporation
https://www.rand.org/pubs/papers/P6092.html
And, despite Musk's ability to prove me wrong, I'll stick with this projection for now.
Re: Is Hyperloop the future of travel?
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
I understand what you're getting at, and you make a fair point, but you really don't think there's a trend on HN where pretty much every idea is called obvious or terrible by some of the most popular comments on a given submission? I was hoping to put some red ink on the trend and maybe curtail it slightly, for what that's worth.
> you really don't think there's a trend on HN It's really hard to assess that objectively because the cognitive biases affecting such perceptions are so strong. Certainly we don't want HN to be that way and try to nudge it in more fruitful directions. But the way to fight an undesirable pattern on HN is not with another undesirable pattern.
I'll defer to you on identifying undesirable patterns from now on, sorry.
Re: Is Hyperloop the future of travel?
#128There's a palpable excitement around Hyperloop and I can't wait to know if this will reshape our world or not. One of the largest problem I can see is not technical. The consensus is that a "standard" Hyperloop track (between 2 cities, 300 to 800km apart) would have a ~1,500 passengers/hour max capacity. High speed rail, such as Eurostar, would be around 10,000 passengers/hour. Even if Hyperloop managed to get built…
The world's busiest high-speed rail is the Japanese Shinkansen between Tokyo and Osaka. It was doing 23,000 passengers per hour way back in 1992.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinkansen
The newest trains have capacity for 1323 seated passengers each, plus plenty of room for standing passengers, and run 13 times an hour in each direction. These things do regularly fill to capacity, too; I've ridden them standing in the door vestibule.
https://www.japanrailpass24.com/about-japan/shinkansen/
I'm sure the Chinese system, such as the line between Shanghai and Nanjing, also has really high ridership, particularly during Chinese New Year.
To me, Hyperloop is a distraction from high speed rail... I'd love to be able to ride an efficient train from SF to LA.
Re: Is Hyperloop the future of travel?
#129why can't they just use existing shinkansen technology instead of reinventing the wheel with this pie in the sky nonsense?
Re: Is Hyperloop the future of travel?
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why? Wouldn't it be more like a train than a plane? A terrorist would only be able to kill ~28 people at a time (1 pod), compared to >200 for a plane
Hasn't the TSA wanted to move into train stations as well? The TSA has shown that they aren't bounded by either what's sensible (ineffective rules) nor the will of the people (buying the backscatter machines without Congressional approval).
TSA has already tested forcing people to screen getting on/off trains and even the highway - seriously.
I wonder if people will start throwing tantrums once they are getting yanked from their cars just going down the highway to work or the store.