Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem is that "importance and priority" are pretty much subjective terms, for example, for many people Hello or Pocket were everything but a priority.
The solution is that it's an open source project. If you disagree with the priorities of the other developers, then you are empowered to take the initiative.
Firefox Test Pilot
121–130 of 152 posts
Re: Firefox Test Pilot
#122Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have 12GB of RAM and probably ~120 tabs open at any given time. This used to be fine, but it seems Firefox is just getting worse over time, the main problem is the frequent 5 to 30 second pauses while it is doing....something.
>the main problem is the frequent 5 to 30 second pauses while it is doing....something. Oh god I thought I was alone on this. I've been talking to various Firefox users and nobody was able to relate with me. I usually keep Firefox open 24/7 with around 20-30 tabs open (~6 or so pinned). Every time I am typing (like in a hangout popup window or in a HN comment) Firefox is micro-stuttering and freezing and it eats away…
Re: Firefox Test Pilot
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
Great! So now in like 2 years, hopefully I can simply use type="time" instead of implementing a half baked JS time picker or time validator. It's frustrating seeing them spend so much time on Firefox OS, Hello, etc. and not on making Firefox a really good, standards compliant browser.
You asked us to implement X. We confirmed that we've begun work on implementing X and provided a way you can follow the progress. You then chose to respond with sarcasm and disdain. What productive outcome could we possibly reach from that exchange?
You need to realize that behind every sarcastic, disdainful comment about Mozilla or Firefox is years, often nearly decades, of Firefox usage, contribution, and promotion. When people come to trust and rely upon a tool for getting work done for many, many years, and then the organization responsible for that tool starts changing priorities in ways that negatively effect the tool's usability and usefulness, people react negatively.
And when the organization then gets defensive and offended at people's negative reactions, it creates a self-reinforcing cycle of negativity and not-listening-to-the-other-side.
Mozilla makes a great browser, saving the world from Microsoft and IE. Nearly two decades later, Mozilla starts mucking with the UI, chasing the mythical never-used-the-Internet-before-and-will-always-be-that-way user, forcing unwanted, unrequested features upon all users, etc.
Naturally, people respond negatively. "Why are you doing this, Mozilla? Why are you ruining this great browser? Why are you now chasing numbers and mythical unicorn users instead of pursuing excellence and usefulness like you always have before?"
Then Mozilla employees get defensive and respond with, "What? Why don't you like what we're doing? Why aren't you being nice to us? We're doing this for you! Stop being mean!" And then they say to each other--especially on Bugzilla reports--"Ugh, more comments from the peanut gallery."--or in Mozilla-speak, "advocacy"--"Locking this bug to editbugs-privileged only accounts."
So now we have two sides that are offended by each other and not listening to each other. But the two sides are not equal, for without users, what is the point of Mozilla and its products? Plenty of well-made software has fallen into obscurity over the years when people weren't using it. And without Firefox, what are users left with but poor imitations?
Undoubtedly Chrome has had an impact here, but Mozilla is mistaken to imitate Chrome to recapture its users. Some people leave Firefox for Chrome because they prefer Chrome, or because Chrome is faster (and they don't mind its memory usage). But other people leave Firefox for Chrome because--wait for it--Firefox has stopped being Firefox! They figure, well, if Firefox is going to try to be a poor imitation of Chrome, I might as well just use Chrome.
But what we really want is authentic Firefox, the browser that we started using when IE ruled the world and Phoenix rose from the ashes of Netscape to save us from the Evil Empire. Microsoft isn't the threat to the Internet it used to be, but monoculture will always be a threat, and proprietary, walled-garden, app-store-style software is a growing threat to user freedom and empowerment.
We need Firefox to be Firefox, not Chrome, not Mozilla's experiment of the month, not Mozilla's platform for enacting social change.
I guess the problem is that Mozilla is literally not who it used to be, because the people are different, and they have different ideas. Probably money has something to do with that; a few years of hundred-million-dollar+ deals obviously has an impact. People get used to the money, and when it comes down to it, they'll do whatever they think it takes to keep the money flowing, even if it means undoing what made them successful.
But the root problem is the Rug Problem: people react negatively when the rug is yanked out from under them without their consent. Mozilla should recognize this and not react defensively.
Instead, Mozilla should interpret every such comment as evidence of bugs in the Mozilla organization, people, processes, and priorities. When "customers" are unhappy, smart companies don't get offended and tell off their customers, they figure out why customers are unhappy, and they make them happy again.
As for myself, I'm keeping an eye on Pale Moon, which has made a commitment to stability in API and UI, and to usefulness for its users. I wish Mozilla would make the same commitment to its users and extension developers.
Re: Firefox Test Pilot
#124Very excited to see this launch! The Internet Archive has been working with browsers to check (opt-in) the Wayback Machine whenever endusers click on a dead link. We're in the queue for the next round of Test Pilot tests!
There's an existing add-on that (kind of) does this. It checks Google Cache and Internet Archive, among others. https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/resurrect-pag...
Re: Firefox Test Pilot
#125Earlier quoted context omitted.
The solution is that it's an open source project. If you disagree with the priorities of the other developers, then you are empowered to take the initiative.
Okay, I would like to remove Hello and Pocket from Firefox. Do you think Mozilla will merge my pull request that I am empowered to initiate?
Re: Firefox Test Pilot
#126This is a step in the right direction. No more should crap like Pocket land in FF without warning. Making new features, which might be controversial, go through a "preview" stage like this, should help restore a lot of faith in the development process, and show that Mozilla is again focusing on the browser rather than random me-too projects following the latest web-fad.
Either way, it was a surprise, and not entirely pleasant. Test Pilot will hopefully be a way to reduce surprises of this nature.
Re: Firefox Test Pilot
#127My first thought was the Clint Eastwood film
(oh wait, no, we had to cancel that one for licensing reasons)
Re: Firefox Test Pilot
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, the site is templated client-side using Ampersand (though lmorchard keeps threatening to rewrite it in React as a weekend project). Should work fine with tracking disabled, but won't work at all without JS.
Oh wow, this is one of the simple designs which only needs HTML and CSS, no JS at all to work, I wonder why they chose to do it this way.
Re: Firefox Test Pilot
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
We don't know exactly what's going to happen with Tab Center--or any of these experiments--in the long run. Our goal here is to get feedback from our users to drive successive UX and engineering iterations. Once experiments have incubated in Test Pilot for awhile, we will have a number of options depending on each experiment's overall success. We may push them over to AMO, or integrate them directly into the browser.…
What if nothing ultimately makes a significant proportion of users switch from Chrome to Firefox? When will Mozilla stop flailing and just go back to making a good browser, like they did when they just had a couple thousand users? When they're fully defeated by the multi-market behemoth again? I still appreciate that Mozilla saved the web from IE, and I still use firefox because it's not yet multi-process and thus no…
Re: Firefox Test Pilot
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
Great! So now in like 2 years, hopefully I can simply use type="time" instead of implementing a half baked JS time picker or time validator. It's frustrating seeing them spend so much time on Firefox OS, Hello, etc. and not on making Firefox a really good, standards compliant browser.
I hear your frustration; people inside the company found some of those changes frustrating, too. Test Pilot is a step in a new direction that's more participatory and inclusive of the community, and injects a lot of data into the decision-making process. As far as web standards go, Gecko's the only open-source browser controlled by a nonprofit. The alternative is a webkit monoculture, a world controlled by Apple and…
That test pilot is only damage control as you are now not only facing Chrome, also frustrated users move on to Brave or Vivaldi.