Are Your Taxes Paying for the Cost of Your Street? • Hacker News Board

Re: Are Your Taxes Paying for the Cost of Your Street?

#121

Post by bagels » Fri, May 06, 2016, 2:52 AM UTC

ItsDeathball wrote: post #27

bagels wrote: post #14

I don't know why the author only does an analysis of just property taxes contributing to road maintenance. Most people in the US are contributing additional taxes in the form of: * Gasoline taxes * State and local sales taxes * State and federal income taxes Those taxes are available to build and maintain infrastructure as well. Whether they are [used for that purpose] or not is a different question. I know that I am…

It's mentioned in the article that this is about local, city-maintained streets. Unless you live directly on a state or federal highway, those gas taxes, state sales taxes, and income taxes do not go towards the street you live one. Local sales taxes may, and the author includes these in the diagram of the city budget. Your largest contribution to the maintenance of city infrastructure is in property taxes, either di…

I would assume that a lot of people on HN pay more state income & sales taxes than property taxes through rent.

Re: Are Your Taxes Paying for the Cost of Your Street?

#122

Post by nitrogen » Fri, May 06, 2016, 3:01 AM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #97

ars wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> charming neighborhoods in the country (e.g. Chelsea in New York That's charming to you???? Looking at photos of it gives me the creeps. How can people stand to live in places like that? > But most of the rest of the country feels dead in comparison. ????? The rest of the country feels open and alive, not crowded and oppressive. I've very glad that in the US you can pick and choose what you like, and it's not all a…

I think "desire" has little to do with it. Right now in my age demographic tons of friends are gnashing their teeth because "public transit" and "decent schools" are apparently incompatible among American urban planners. And suburban sprawl is hardly "open and alive." Here in NoVA it's just mile after mile of asphalt and concrete with most of the greenery strategically planted as highway noise breaks and to separate…

Here in NoVA...

It's typical of people from both the East Coast and West Coast to think their experiences are representative of the whole country...

Just like it's silly for me to say everyone from the coasts ignores the middle, it's silly for you to imagine that everywhere is like Northern Virginia.

Re: Are Your Taxes Paying for the Cost of Your Street?

#123

Post by maxsilver » Fri, May 06, 2016, 3:02 AM UTC

khuey wrote: post #110

ars wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Make that the world. Please don't!!! I stay far far far away from the dense cities. I can't stand those places. I'm quite happy with the way in the US you can pick where you want to live - anything from superdense, to urban, to suburban, to rural. Whatever you like, there's a city that will match you. Even better is how in some cities there is a mix, all within 50 miles of each other you have all the types. You get…

Except you can't. Your choices in the US are almost always suburban to rural, especially if a) you don't have a lot of money to afford the desirable urban areas and b) you don't want to deal with the crime in the undesirable ones.

This is the largest factor.

I love cities. But I'm having a hard time with so-called "urbanist" people/policies.

A lot of the philosophy boils down to intentionally make life harder for anyone who isn't living in Downtown urban cores -- areas so expensive, no one who works for a living can ever afford them.

Effectively, they want to punish poor and middle class people simply for being poor and middle class, through the design of the place we all live in. Which is counter to the whole point of cities in the first place.

Re: Are Your Taxes Paying for the Cost of Your Street?

#124

Post by caseysoftware » Fri, May 06, 2016, 3:18 AM UTC

Btw, what's your first pet's name?

(now that we know the street you grew up on..)

Re: Are Your Taxes Paying for the Cost of Your Street?

#125

Post by cjslep » Fri, May 06, 2016, 3:28 AM UTC

nitrogen wrote: post #122

rayiner wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think "desire" has little to do with it. Right now in my age demographic tons of friends are gnashing their teeth because "public transit" and "decent schools" are apparently incompatible among American urban planners. And suburban sprawl is hardly "open and alive." Here in NoVA it's just mile after mile of asphalt and concrete with most of the greenery strategically planted as highway noise breaks and to separate…

Here in NoVA... It's typical of people from both the East Coast and West Coast to think their experiences are representative of the whole country... Just like it's silly for me to say everyone from the coasts ignores the middle, it's silly for you to imagine that everywhere is like Northern Virginia.

> It's typical of people from both the East Coast and West Coast to think their experiences are representative of the whole country...

I think you have good intentions, but this comes across as pretty insensitive. Rayiner isn't saying every corner of the USA is sprawling suburbia; only that the huge NoVA sprawl outside of D.C. contributes against the average sprawling suburbia from being considered "open and alive". It's a debatable point without labeling huge groups of people.

Re: Are Your Taxes Paying for the Cost of Your Street?

#126

Post by twoodfin » Fri, May 06, 2016, 3:28 AM UTC

specialist wrote: post #106

akchin wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might be unpopular, but California is a great example of a place where taxes are high, but it is not spent well. I remember looking at this a few years back, and although the state claims that 2/3 of state tax dollars goes towards education, a lot of it is supporting pensions and benefits of previous generation employees and teachers. While this is admirable, it essentially takes money away from today's generati…

"...a lot of it is supporting pensions and benefits of previous generation employees and teachers. While this is admirable..." It's contract law. No admirable necessary. Pensions etc are negotiated as part of the compensation package. Those former employees earned that money. It's not an entitlement, or charity. Legitimate complaints would be gaming the pension system and chronic underfunding (kicking the can down th…

They earned a promise from the government. That's not the same thing as earning the money, as many state and municipal employees will doubtless discover over the next few decades.

Re: Are Your Taxes Paying for the Cost of Your Street?

#127

Post by rahimnathwani » Fri, May 06, 2016, 3:32 AM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #13

clarkmoody wrote: post #8

First and foremost, we need to abolish the laws that caused this all to happen. Yes, that’s right – all of this was required to happen, by law. Many people think that sprawl is a free market phenomenon, and they are exactly wrong. Sprawl is caused by the following policies – I call these Sprawl Laws; you can find them for yourself in your local city code (for the most succinct explanation, see this paper[1]): * Zonin…

It's interesting that some of the most charming neighborhoods in the country (e.g. Chelsea in New York, DuPont in D.C.) were built before all that crap. You'd never build a "modern city" like Philadelphia, with its narrow one-way streets, lack of parking, and commercial and retail mish-mashed together. But most of the rest of the country feels dead in comparison.

For a year in 2003-4, I lived in a newly-built (maybe 3 years old?) rented apartment near the center of Oxford (right next to the railway station). The developer had only been allowed to include 8 parking spaces (between 50-100 flats). Nearby street parking was all resident-permit-only, and residents of these newly-built flats were not eligible to get residents' permits for any street parking.

This prevented anyone living in any of those flats from owning a car without serious hassle or cost. I owned a car at the time, so didn't like it. In retrospect, it seems like a great policy: allow new housing to be built, but don't externalise the costs of parking cars.

Re: Are Your Taxes Paying for the Cost of Your Street?

#128

Post by nitrogen » Fri, May 06, 2016, 3:39 AM UTC

cjslep wrote: post #125

nitrogen wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in NoVA... It's typical of people from both the East Coast and West Coast to think their experiences are representative of the whole country... Just like it's silly for me to say everyone from the coasts ignores the middle, it's silly for you to imagine that everywhere is like Northern Virginia.

> It's typical of people from both the East Coast and West Coast to think their experiences are representative of the whole country... I think you have good intentions, but this comes across as pretty insensitive. Rayiner isn't saying every corner of the USA is sprawling suburbia; only that the huge NoVA sprawl outside of D.C. contributes against the average sprawling suburbia from being considered "open and alive".…

I did have a second paragraph, short as it was, noting how silly it is to paint with such a broad brush.

Whatever makes the difference (zoning, local culture and traditions, socioeconomic status, ...), there are good and bad suburban areas; they aren't all lifeless, even if they do seem to stretch on forever in places.

Edit to add: suburban areas aren't meant to be experienced from a distance, viewing from the freeway. Looking from a distance at sprawling neighborhoods won't give one a good impression of what it's like to live in one of those neighborhoods.

Re: Are Your Taxes Paying for the Cost of Your Street?

#129

Post by intrasight » Fri, May 06, 2016, 3:47 AM UTC

I live in an established town. The municipal boundary is about eight square miles. Very few new developments so the author's math doesn't apply. Our roads are maintained by the "tar and chip" approach which is pretty automated. A truck which has both the tar sprayer and the chip spreader drives around town on a regular basis to resurface the roads. Our road has been resurfaced this way about every five years.

The next town over has brick roads. They also need periodic maintenance, but it looks like the same bricks have been in place for a hundred years.

I'm sure that in both cases our taxes ARE paying the cost of the streets.

Re: Are Your Taxes Paying for the Cost of Your Street?

#130

Post by ghaff » Fri, May 06, 2016, 4:00 AM UTC

pm24601 wrote: post #120

ars wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> charming neighborhoods in the country (e.g. Chelsea in New York That's charming to you???? Looking at photos of it gives me the creeps. How can people stand to live in places like that? > But most of the rest of the country feels dead in comparison. ????? The rest of the country feels open and alive, not crowded and oppressive. I've very glad that in the US you can pick and choose what you like, and it's not all a…

So long as you can pay for the sewer, fire protection, police protection, electrical power, etc. by yourself - you are welcome to anything you want.

In my exurban town, all that's paid by either property taxes or my utility payments. (Plus local schools--which I don't use but are far and away the largest cost applied against my property taxes.) I also pay for private trash collection and my own septic.

Imputing the costs of roads is more difficult although I'd note my town is only about 25 years newer than Boston so it's hardly a case of recent sprawl.