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Cupertino's mayor: Apple 'abuses us' by not paying taxes

theguardian.com

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Re: Cupertino's mayor: Apple 'abuses us' by not paying taxes

#121

Post by djschnei »

tamana wrote: post #104
djschnei wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow... outstanding haha. So in bringing more business to an area, they need to pay twice? At what point do people actually own the land they own?

Never. Land is partly common property. Real estate is taxed ongoing because the Earth has finite land. Google "Land Value Tax"

Luckily, we have a totally non coercive, completely voluntary way to regulate the use of finite resources, which automagically allocates resources favoring their most productive uses. It's called a market economy.

How can something that is common property, like you assert (I disagree) be claimed arbitrarily by one group of people and charged for?

Re: Cupertino's mayor: Apple 'abuses us' by not paying taxes

#122

Post by djschnei »

talmand wrote: post #58
djschnei wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow... outstanding haha. So in bringing more business to an area, they need to pay twice? At what point do people actually own the land they own?

If failure to pay property taxes means you vacating the property after government seizure, then you don't own the land anyway. Threat of seizure is a serious problem for a business, why not force them to pay twice?

uuuuuh because it's immoral? You're saying "well we already threaten them with violence/guns to pay once, might as well do it twice" - I shouldn't have to explain my objections.

Re: Cupertino's mayor: Apple 'abuses us' by not paying taxes

#123

Post by djschnei »

goldbrick wrote: post #91
jessriedel wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Property rights are enforced by the government, it's only fair that they receive compensation for that. The compensation they extract has nothing to do with the cost of enforcing property rights, because those costs are trivial.

Not trivial at all, just mostly invisible and most of us who've only known modern western societies never give it a second thought.

Try again. That "protection" you're referencing is actually the natural cooperation between rational actors that capitalism and market economies in general foster and perpetuate. Capitalism is the invisible hand, not government.

Re: Cupertino's mayor: Apple 'abuses us' by not paying taxes

#124

Post by kafkaesq »

eeeeeeeeeeeee wrote: post #117
lewis500 wrote: post #73

This reporter is credulous, because the Guardian is just awful. "Barry Chang barely made it into the lobby when Apple’s security team surrounded and escorted him off the property. “They said ‘you cannot come in, you’re not invited’. After that I left and have not gone back,” said an exasperated Chang." Uh huh. Yeah I bet it happened just like that. What buffoon of a reporter prints a politician's self-serving and inc…

Did you also notice that the way the Guardian wrote that paragraph makes it sound like Apple turned away the mayor, when in fact he was not the mayor at the time he went to Apple unannounced. I cannot read that any other way except to intentionally mislead people for a greater impact on the story. I really hate this kind of journalism. "The last time the mayor of Cupertino walked into Apple" Yes, he is the current ma…

I cannot read that any other way except to intentionally mislead people for a greater impact on the story.

It was a bit careless on their part. Most likely the author simply didn't know when the uninvited visit occurred didn't think to double check.

In general I don't see much benefit in imputing malicious motives to others, when far simpler explanations will suffice.

Re: Cupertino's mayor: Apple 'abuses us' by not paying taxes

#125

Post by strictnein »

PavlovsCat wrote: post #105
drzaiusapelord wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you blame him? There's nothing sleazier than municipal governments, at least once they reach a certain size. They all see the business class as a gravy train to ride instead of finding ways to do a better job with the already large budgets they have. Chicago doesn't have a Jobs to control it, so its endless tax raises to pay for sweetheart public union pension deals and other backroom corruption. I think the inte…

While we're talking generalities, here's something more serious. > What has been created by this half century of massive corporate propaganda is what's called "anti-politics". So that anything that goes wrong, you blame the government. Well okay, there's plenty to blame the government about, but the government is the one institution that people can change... the one institution that you can affect without institution…

Oh boy... a Chomsky quote.

> "so you don't read about the dazzling profits and the stupendous dizz, and the wages going down and so on"

Yeah, that's never in the news.

Re: Cupertino's mayor: Apple 'abuses us' by not paying taxes

#126

Post by Loque »

icebraining wrote: post #88
Loque wrote: post #77

It's not just apple, it is every company that dodges taxes. Making an example of apple is not fair - everyone should pay their taxes... who knows how the systems we have in place would actually work if people used it the way it is designed (instead of finding loopholes for their own benefit).

Which taxes is Apple dodging? I'm not sure you read the article carefully. The mayor wanted to pass a new tax, but the other council members voted his proposal down.

Ah, thanks - it seems I was talking about something else; https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jan/15/apple-eur...

Re: Cupertino's mayor: Apple 'abuses us' by not paying taxes

#127

Post by icebraining »

Loque wrote: post #126
icebraining wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which taxes is Apple dodging? I'm not sure you read the article carefully. The mayor wanted to pass a new tax, but the other council members voted his proposal down.

Ah, thanks - it seems I was talking about something else; https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jan/15/apple-eur...

That's not Apple dodging taxes either; they were just caught in the crossfire of the tax war that's been happening in the EU. Ireland, the Netherlands, etc try to lure companies by competing on tax rates, which the rest of the EU doesn't like, so as in any cartel, they forbid member states from dropping them too low. Since Ireland's was found to be in infringement, the companies have to pay the difference.

Re: Cupertino's mayor: Apple 'abuses us' by not paying taxes

#128

Post by kuschku »

whatok wrote: post #100
kuschku wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a solution how you can get both. The German city of Wolfsburg, and the state of Niedersachsen have done it with VW. The solution: You just buy a large amount of shares of the companies that are started in your city. Municipalities get a far larger share of the profits directly, politicians have an incentive to ensure companies are profitable, and companies can’t avoid paying for the infrastructure they use.

This is an awful idea. Governments do not have the expertise to participate as an psuedo-activist investor. On top of that, what happens when the city's crown jewel goes bankrupt and those shares go to zero? Diversification is key. There's a reason why there were so many pension changes post-Enron. It's not good for individuals to be so heavily concentrated into a single company and it sure is not good for cities.

If all big companies in a city go down, the city will suffer anyway – investing in the large companies in your city can’t make things worse.

The German government has done it for several decades, with great success – you should take a look at their model.

Re: Cupertino's mayor: Apple 'abuses us' by not paying taxes

#129

Post by PavlovsCat »

strictnein wrote: post #125
PavlovsCat wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While we're talking generalities, here's something more serious. > What has been created by this half century of massive corporate propaganda is what's called "anti-politics". So that anything that goes wrong, you blame the government. Well okay, there's plenty to blame the government about, but the government is the one institution that people can change... the one institution that you can affect without institution…

Oh boy... a Chomsky quote. > "so you don't read about the dazzling profits and the stupendous dizz, and the wages going down and so on" Yeah, that's never in the news.

Oh, an ad-hominem and a straw man, and of course total avoidance of the core point. What a surprise.

Re: Cupertino's mayor: Apple 'abuses us' by not paying taxes

#130

Post by goldbrick »

djschnei wrote: post #123
goldbrick wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not trivial at all, just mostly invisible and most of us who've only known modern western societies never give it a second thought.

Try again. That "protection" you're referencing is actually the natural cooperation between rational actors that capitalism and market economies in general foster and perpetuate. Capitalism is the invisible hand, not government.

Go to school, kid: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/property_rights.asp
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