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Homebrew now sends usage information to Google Analytics

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Re: Homebrew now sends usage information to Google Analytics

#121

Post by toomuchtodo »

hk__2 wrote: post #99
jldugger wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would be somehow more ethical if they set up their own piwik instance to collect the same data?

We don’t have the resources for this. If you have any suggestion for a service that doesn’t require us time to manage we’d be very grateful. Homebrew have a dozen maintainers for >30 PRs & issues per day plus maintaining our own CI infrastructure plus normal development; and all of this is on our spare time.

As a Homebrew user, thanks for your efforts. I'm totally fine with the change myself, and I apologize for everyone else in here who cares about their privacy, but doesn't really care about the time volunteers are committing, nor the time savings from this feature.

Re: Homebrew now sends usage information to Google Analytics

#122

Post by toomuchtodo »

cname wrote: post #118
toomuchtodo wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As in, people want privacy at the expense of volunteer time. Simple solution: Charge people for using Homebrew who don't want to send analytics in, fund Homebrew development with those funds. Otherwise, its an external cost being foisted on the volunteers by developers who want privacy at the cost of additional volunteer time. EDIT: The tone of this thread is the exact problem with open source projects and participat…

I think most people aren't concerned so much about sharing usage data. The problem is specifically the way it's being shared via a third party. Other apps ask if I mind sharing some data (e.g., Firefox), and I don't have a problem with that.

Okay. Is everyone going to pony up for a self-hosted analytics box and the time to manage it? No? Of course not. Everyone wants to complain, no one would contribute resources to do it though. Privacy has a high moral value (its free to want it and complain about it), but small economic value (you use Chrome? It sends everything you do back to Google. You'll still use it, because its better than not).

Re: Homebrew now sends usage information to Google Analytics

#123

Post by joepie91_ »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #84
joosters wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...which is very telling.

As in, people want privacy at the expense of volunteer time. Simple solution: Charge people for using Homebrew who don't want to send analytics in, fund Homebrew development with those funds. Otherwise, its an external cost being foisted on the volunteers by developers who want privacy at the cost of additional volunteer time. EDIT: The tone of this thread is the exact problem with open source projects and participat…

Just like open-source doesn't come with warranties from the creator, it also doesn't come with obligations to the end user other than to abide by the license.

Re: Homebrew now sends usage information to Google Analytics

#124

Post by khc »

daveguy wrote: post #31
LeoPanthera wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is an alert displayed to the user the first time it tries to send info to Google? If not, that is far from "transparent". It's good that they tell you how to opt out on the website, but I can't remember the last time I went to the website. Probably when I first installed Homebrew on this Mac.

This. Either everyone should be notified before the first google analytics transmission so that they can choose to opt in our out. Or the default should be off and maybe on new installs they can choose to opt in. At the opt in/out dialog (when you give the users a choice) you can make the default to opt-in, but having the default as opt-in without any input from the user is bad form. It is similar to spammers calling…

How should this be handled if the software in question is a server daemon? I want the users to make an explicit choice but it's not obvious what's the best way to do that.

Re: Homebrew now sends usage information to Google Analytics

#125

Post by Matt3o12_ »

andrei_says_ wrote: post #107
atmosx wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Get littlesnitch on Mac and you won't need to rely on third parties alerting about outgoing connections, although I recon the when we're talking about something like homebrew it's not easy to vet every single outgoing connection. Still littlesnitch is really awesome for the privacy conscious users.

I have little snitch and can verify that everything talks to the Internet all of the time :(

Only if you let them. I have installed little snitch and the only applications that have unlimited access to the Internet (all servers on port 80/443) are my web browsers. The other applications barely have access to their on servers (only if I find it necessary for them to auto-check for updates) let alone google analytics.

To achieve the best security, you should disable most bultin rules or customize them yourself.

Re: Homebrew now sends usage information to Google Analytics

#126

Post by jalami »

Would really prefer it to be opt-in instead of opt-out as others have said. Sharing the info with Homebrew is one thing, the GA borg-malware is another entirely. Something like that should require an explicit request. At least in the browser, I can blacklist all requests with uBlock.

Atom does the same thing and I'm not a fan. You have to explicitly remove the analytics 'package'. Soon every piece of software will be reporting, silently.

Re: Homebrew now sends usage information to Google Analytics

#127

Post by toomuchtodo »

joepie91_ wrote: post #123
toomuchtodo wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As in, people want privacy at the expense of volunteer time. Simple solution: Charge people for using Homebrew who don't want to send analytics in, fund Homebrew development with those funds. Otherwise, its an external cost being foisted on the volunteers by developers who want privacy at the cost of additional volunteer time. EDIT: The tone of this thread is the exact problem with open source projects and participat…

Just like open-source doesn't come with warranties from the creator, it also doesn't come with obligations to the end user other than to abide by the license.

You use Homebrew. In return, you send anonymous stats to save the developers time. If you'd prefer not to, set the env var or stop using Homebrew.

Alternatively, fork it, take out the modifications, and run your own version of Homebrew. But that takes time, and effort; that same time and effort homebrew devs are trying to save with a feature. Why is your time as a user valuable but the Homebrew dev's time not?

Re: Homebrew now sends usage information to Google Analytics

#128

Post by TheLogothete »

TheLogothete wrote: post #92
iagooar wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it would be, yes. At least, it would not get into the hands of an external 3rd party (that as we know, lives from selling / using data they gather from people).

Google does not use GA data unless the webmaster chooses to share it with them. I'm not sure if they use it to improve their ad products, but I wouldn't be surprised if the answer is no.

ARGH! I HATE TEH GOOGLE AND TEH MARKETERS AND I WILL DOWNVOTE YOU BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE ANALYTICS. IT DOESN'T MATTER THAT YOU ARE RIGHT.

Re: Homebrew now sends usage information to Google Analytics

#129

Post by cname »

mikevm wrote: post #4
LeoPanthera wrote: post #3

Set HOMEBREW_NO_ANALYTICS=1 to opt out. The right thing to do would be to make it opt in, not opt out. (Which would not be without precedent. Debian's popcon is opt-in.)

That's probably true, but then no one would opt-in.

Although if Homebrew wasn't using Google Analytics, maybe people would. It could just be a "Do you mind sending us anonymous usage data? [y/N]" prompt. Many other apps do something equivalent, and I don't mind giving it to them. The fact that those apps ask in the first place makes me much more amenable to the idea.

Re: Homebrew now sends usage information to Google Analytics

#130

Post by joepie91_ »

TheLogothete wrote: post #92
iagooar wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it would be, yes. At least, it would not get into the hands of an external 3rd party (that as we know, lives from selling / using data they gather from people).

Google does not use GA data unless the webmaster chooses to share it with them. I'm not sure if they use it to improve their ad products, but I wouldn't be surprised if the answer is no.

Firstly, this is a decision that should be up to the user, not the webmaster.

Secondly, do you have a source for that? I find that a very dubious claim, from a business perspective.

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