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SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

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Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#121

Post by mabbo »

citizensixteen wrote: post #95
monkmartinez wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a complex issue... but in my experience, most of the homeless are not looking for help to find jobs and/or contribute to society in manner that will lead them out of "homelessness." A lot of them prefer this "lifestyle"... we try very hard to help the people that want help. Most don't. Go talk to your local EMS/Fire department personnel and most of them will have similar stories. I know the homeless people in…

>A lot of them prefer this "lifestyle" I used to also think that many homeless "preferred the lifestyle of homelessness" but I recently learned of a town in Canada (Medicine Hat) that found it more cost effective to house the homeless. This myth that people prefer to be homeless was shattered and this town found that nearly all homeless were able to reintegrated back into having their own places. The mayor was skepti…

Our super-Conservative government for the last decade (now replaced by a young, hip, Liberal one) was actually really big behind the 'housing-first' method of helping the homeless (you get an apartment, no questions asked, then we work on your drug problems, etc later), and put a lot of money towards it.

At first, this seems very socially liberal and at odds with a Conservative party kind of thing until you look at the financials and realize it actually is fiscally very conservative- it saves a ton of money on policing and medical care.

All that said, have you been to Medicine Hat? That's not a place with a very relaxed 'homeless lifestyle'. It's -15C here in Toronto today, and we're like 700km further south. In the west coast of the USA, you can survive on the street without the air itself killing you.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#122

Post by jonknee »

monkmartinez wrote: post #104
creshal wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A lot of them prefer this "lifestyle"... we try very hard to help the people that want help. Most don't. A lot of them are mentally handicapped or dealing with acquired mental illnesses. Even under good conditions, treating either is hard . Of course EMS/fire fighters/volunteers working in shelters aren't able to do that.

I've loaded many a homeless into my fire engine to take to the local Crisis Resource Center/ Behaviour Rehabilitation center because they begged and pleaded that they want help. Great! More often than not, we see them a few days later with Steel Reserve cans littered about after someone calls 911 for what appears to them a dead man on the side of the road. Mental illness is brutal. I feel for these guys, especially a…

I wouldn't trust the VA to actually give them the help they need. Navigating a giant bureaucracy is tough for the most sane among us, let alone someone on the ropes.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#124

Post by kefka »

SomeStupidPoint wrote: post #89
at-fates-hands wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what kind of solution the government should have. There's already a myriad of local, state and federal housing programs already in place. Whether its temporary emergency housing, eviction protection, child care services, or in some cases, low income housing and federal subsidies for permanent housing. There's plenty of safety nets in California, let alone the SF area. If people want to get off the streets, t…

In my city, most of the programs to help homeless people have waitlists on the order of years.

I live in Bloomington, IN.

We have (Way) better than average care for homless in probably a 3 hour driving distance. There's tons of services available. And that too is a problem. Every service we provide means that more homeless come and flock to our city. Ideally, we'd like to provide for everyone, out of a sense of human decency.

The only problem with that is we could provide for everyone in the county, we cannot do the same for south central indiana, parts of Kentucky, parts of Ohio, and parts of Illinois, and wherever they come from via bus. What started as a problem of 100 people disenfranchised now is a perpetual 400.

The solution, as ugly as it may seem, needs to be a cross-country (national level) anti-homelessness mission. That means comprehensive low/no barrier essentials, possibly even a minimum income. Until a national answer happens, any community that offers above and beyond will get punished with multiplying numbers that far exceed any local budgets.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#126

Post by bobbyadamson »

What is this thing where people use the word "bro" to dissociate themselves from their colleagues who they don't like/make offensive remarks? The community is not spotless and that doesn't make those people "bros". Oh and by the way, can we discuss the fact that we have a homeless problem? You know, an actual problem? Since that seems to be brought up as little as possible in an article written essentially to hold up the argument that this "tech bro" is a shitty "tech bro" by the way did we mention he's a bro?

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#127

Post by iamnothere »

monkmartinez wrote: post #61
lhnz wrote: post #25

Certainly not very compassionate, but is it true that the homeless in San Francisco have a drug problem that is making the area unsafe? Is nobody trying to treat or house these people? Shouldn't people take this piece and use it as further evidence that there is a problem that needs to be fixed, rather than merely a culture war they can take part in? As usual, everybody want's to talk about how much of a 'bro' this g…

The "homeless" must want and work (mentally and emotionally) for help in order for it to work. fullstop. In my experience, most do not want to put in the effort to kick the habits, contribute to society in a meaningful way, or tell you it is too late. The reality is a lot of them prefer the "lifestyle" and "freedom" to do whatever the hell they want whenever the hell they want to do it. They have a completely differe…

Not if the government takes the perspective that housing is a human right, regardless of an individual's mental health or substance abuse problems, willingness or capacity to work, or even criminal history. Some would argue that a country has a duty to shelter its citizens, and research shows that the more difficult problems associated with homelessness can be solved by focusing on housing first, then taking on other issues.

The Housing First movement takes this stance, and has seen some success: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_First

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#128

Post by 010a »

Afforess wrote: post #9

To play devil's advocate, he's right. He shouldn't have to see the pain, struggle, and despair of homeless - the city government should be providing affordable housing and shelters for the homeless. That it hasn't is a failure of the local government, and should be addressed. Much of the reason that affordable housing is out of reach of many in San Francisco is due to government regulation, not market capitalism. Ext…

His wording might have been harsh and maybe he's coming from the wrong viewpoint, but he's ultimately right. Fixing homelessness and mental illness in the right way would be a net benefit to both people like him and the people on the street.

California has the highest income tax in the entire United States. San Francisco is up there among county income tax. Its inexcusable that our star tech capital of the entire world is simultaneously infamous for its homelessness and mental health problems. You can phrase it "I hate looking at these people" or you can phrase it "these people need help"; the right solution remains the same. Fix it.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#129

Post by basseq »

I'm kind of disappointed in the Post on this one. From reporting on internet outrage to repeating another publication's "tech bro" slur, this isn't set up to engender a real debate.

Justin Keller is a terrible "face" for the debate (and so is Edna Miroslava Raia for the opposition). The facts are that San Fran has an economic problem and a homeless problem. Those problems are not mutually exclusive, but neither are they the same thing. Justin shouldn't have to worry about being accosted, and he shouldn't "have to see the pain, struggle, and despair of homeless people"—but because the problem should be solved, not swept under the rug.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#130

Post by JumpCrisscross »

cloverich wrote: post #119
maratd wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does every comment on here need to be cited? Nobody is writing a research paper through HN comments. We're just having a conversation.

Because personal accounts are only generalizable when backed by additional sources / data. There's a difference between whether or not this person is being genuine (My bias is yes) and whether or not their accounts are generalizable (My bias is no). Asking for citations is to me a way of asking someone who seems already familiar with what they are describing for more information, so I can learn more / share with othe…

It's a good habit to get into. I can't count the number of times I went searching for a citation to something seemingly obvious only to have my assumptions thrown in my face by the data.
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