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Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

business.financialpost.com

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Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#121

Post by Tistel »

jpambrun wrote: post #110
Tistel wrote: post #105

This is me. I left Vancouver for Toronto 5 years ago. What is not mentioned (that I saw) is that salaries in Vancouver are also much lower than Toronto for the same job. Montreal is even cheaper than Toronto and is probably more fun (if you are bilingual)

Salaries are also much lower in Montréal. If you are willing to learn French, you will be very welcome.

I am from NB (Anglo). So I have very rusty French. I am sure it would come back if I used it. Montreal is a great city. My salary doubled for the same industry (programmer with CS) going from Van to TO. Vancouver is beautiful if you like playing in the mountains. I miss the snowboarding and hiking very much. But I was almost homeless I was so poor out there.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#122

Post by CalRobert »

epimetheus wrote: post #51
branchless wrote: post #27

Come to Montreal! It's great here. No way would I want to pledge the rest of my life to a bank in exchange for the right to exist. Rent controls here. It's odd: it's like the state understands that banks are bastards. Montreal has some issues with organised crime but nothing compared to the organised crime of banking / money laundering through land. I don't have to pay some gangster $1MM for a shack. Leave the boomer…

I wonder how much climate is playing a factor in Vancouver's issues. Just from my perspective, I'd love to move to Vancouver, but would never, ever consider Montreal, not because it's not a beautiful city, but because of the harsh winters. Other people don't seem to really care about weather extremes or scenery, etc. I have no insight into these real estate investors dumping money into property, sure if they aren't l…

Keep in mind that some people also like the climate of places like Vancouver. I would count myself among them. I moved from Dublin to San Diego (supposedly known for nice weather, somehow) and the weather here is awful; I can't do anything outside without becoming a sweaty mess 9 months of the year. Apparently it's been like this the last several years in a row, possibly indicating a substantial change in the norm, but people lie to themselves about how it's always pleasant here even while it's 90F.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#123

Post by yarrel »

rubiquity wrote: post #68
api_or_ipa wrote: post #55

As someone who just moved from Vancouver to the Bay Area, it's obvious the issue isn't housing. It's income. My apartment in trendy yaletown was $2350/month for a very nice 2 bed, 2 bath place within 10 mins of anything in downtown. Try finding something even remotely as nice around Silicon Valley. The issue we should be tackling is the low wages seen in the area. The same developer who could make $100k USD in the va…

Ding ding ding. We have a winner. While I've never ever considered moving to Vancouver, I get recruiter emails several times a month for companies in Vancouver looking for Senior programmers to move there and only offering 80k to 110k CAD at the most. That is not nearly enough money to live in Vancouver. Enough to exist but not enough to live. The problem as I understand it is that a ton of Vancouver's housing is occ…

s/occupied/owned/

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#124

Post by rumiarabi »

Apocryphon wrote: post #104
branchless wrote: post #27

Come to Montreal! It's great here. No way would I want to pledge the rest of my life to a bank in exchange for the right to exist. Rent controls here. It's odd: it's like the state understands that banks are bastards. Montreal has some issues with organised crime but nothing compared to the organised crime of banking / money laundering through land. I don't have to pay some gangster $1MM for a shack. Leave the boomer…

How's the tech scene in MTL?

Probably second to only SF in North America for the game industry, SFX for the film industry is also big here.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#125

Post by justinhj »

api_or_ipa wrote: post #55

As someone who just moved from Vancouver to the Bay Area, it's obvious the issue isn't housing. It's income. My apartment in trendy yaletown was $2350/month for a very nice 2 bed, 2 bath place within 10 mins of anything in downtown. Try finding something even remotely as nice around Silicon Valley. The issue we should be tackling is the low wages seen in the area. The same developer who could make $100k USD in the va…

I agree with your point in genera but in my experience as a developer who works in Vancouver, but has also worked in SF and NY, the salaries are about the same in number if not in currency. The CAD has dropped 30% in a couple of years though which does mean we effectively are getting less.

I think Vancouver actually pays tech workers pretty well because there is a high demand, a few big companies and lots of smaller innovative ones.

Vancouver doesn't have the typical jobs that pay for $1m houses and yachts though. Opportunities in finance and corporate HQ positions are minuscule compared to big US cities and Toronto.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#126

Post by justinhj »

api_or_ipa wrote: post #55

As someone who just moved from Vancouver to the Bay Area, it's obvious the issue isn't housing. It's income. My apartment in trendy yaletown was $2350/month for a very nice 2 bed, 2 bath place within 10 mins of anything in downtown. Try finding something even remotely as nice around Silicon Valley. The issue we should be tackling is the low wages seen in the area. The same developer who could make $100k USD in the va…

I agree with your point in genera but in my experience as a developer who works in Vancouver, but has also worked in SF and NY, the salaries are about the same in number if not in currency. The CAD has dropped 30% in a couple of years though which does mean we effectively are getting less.

I think Vancouver actually pays tech workers pretty well because there is a high demand, a few big companies and lots of smaller innovative ones.

Vancouver doesn't have the typical jobs that pay for $1m houses and yachts though. Opportunities in finance and corporate HQ positions are minuscule compared to big US cities and Toronto.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#127

Post by ghaff »

Ologn wrote: post #28
HorizonXP wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was going to be my question. I mean, look at the Bay Area. They command some of the highest rents in the country, and many tech-sector workers are able to "get by" because of higher salaries from their employers. Of course, if you're not in the tech sector, you're forced to live in more affordable outskirts, like East Bay. In NYC, they have fantastic transit, so if you don't live in Manhattan, you can still get…

On a weekday, Caltrain stops going south between midnight and 5 AM. Bart going east shuts down around the same time. In Manhattan, subways run all night to the different boros, Metro-north, the LIRR, PATH, NJ transit etc. run through the night. People say NYC is expensive, and living on the upper east side or west village can be expensive. But plenty of safe, cheaper places are a 20 minute train ride from Manhattan,…

Manhattan is very atypical of mass transit systems just about anywhere and, even in New York, not all service is 24 hour.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#128

Post by rubiquity »

yarrel wrote: post #123
rubiquity wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ding ding ding. We have a winner. While I've never ever considered moving to Vancouver, I get recruiter emails several times a month for companies in Vancouver looking for Senior programmers to move there and only offering 80k to 110k CAD at the most. That is not nearly enough money to live in Vancouver. Enough to exist but not enough to live. The problem as I understand it is that a ton of Vancouver's housing is occ…

s/occupied/owned/

Ah yes that is an important distinction.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#129

Post by rchaud »

branchless wrote: post #27

Come to Montreal! It's great here. No way would I want to pledge the rest of my life to a bank in exchange for the right to exist. Rent controls here. It's odd: it's like the state understands that banks are bastards. Montreal has some issues with organised crime but nothing compared to the organised crime of banking / money laundering through land. I don't have to pay some gangster $1MM for a shack. Leave the boomer…

Part of why Montreal is still reasonably priced is because the French-language barrier to entry keeps a lot of jobseekers out.

The vast majority of Canadians outside of Quebec and the Ottawa region do not speak French. Sure, they all took French in high school, but most wouldn't be able to hold a conversation let alone conduct business in the language. Perhaps in some types of jobs with a lax rules about French proficiency, it would be OK, but you are unlikely to find a job listing in Montreal that doesn't state a requirement or "strong preference" for high-level French communication skills.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#130

Post by rchaud »

AYBABTME wrote: post #90
branchless wrote: post #27

Come to Montreal! It's great here. No way would I want to pledge the rest of my life to a bank in exchange for the right to exist. Rent controls here. It's odd: it's like the state understands that banks are bastards. Montreal has some issues with organised crime but nothing compared to the organised crime of banking / money laundering through land. I don't have to pay some gangster $1MM for a shack. Leave the boomer…

Problem is salary in Montreal are ridiculously low, and taxes in Quebec are higher than Ontario/British Colombia. Higher taxes should come with the benefit of more services: the health system is clogged and for non-french speaking families, the education system isn't the most friendly.

> Higher taxes should come with the benefit of more services

Daycare services in the province are absurdly cheap compared to anywhere else in the country.

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