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India bans discriminatory pricing based on source/destination/app/content

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Re: India bans discriminatory pricing based on source/destination/app/content

#121
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While the David's won this round, it was against an opponent (or group of) which made several tactical errors. We need to build a more lasting institution to prepare in advance for future papers, have lists of people it can reach out to, and manage the hidden minutiae required to combat these issues. Because Next time it may not be Facebook, it may be the GoI itself, or reliance.

How do we focus instead on changes required for a better internet? The internet was originally designed (imagined?) to route around bad actors, congestion, censorship. If it no longer does that (and there's some truth to say it never has) then we've failed to build in the necessary incentives for that to happen.

This is a ridiculously hard question to answer correctly.

At best I can point out that theres 2 parts to this - the internet infrastructure and the regulatory frameworks.

Till now, we've worked without having to explicitly state the philosophical underpinnings of the web, nor convert that into a law/legal framework.

The slow lumbering leviathans have finally caught up to the nimble minnows of the 2000s. Telecom operators and other incumbents, including governments now know how the web works, and how to make it work for them (to the detriment of the commons).

We can limit the damage of the second, by help build and maintain transparent regulatory frameworks, and in particular - be able to mobilize rebuttals or examples to future papers released by TRAI, or other GoI institutions.

Whats learned here and other countries over the next 5 years, can be used to push for a stronger global framework.

Re: India bans discriminatory pricing based on source/destination/app/content

#122
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While the David's won this round, it was against an opponent (or group of) which made several tactical errors. We need to build a more lasting institution to prepare in advance for future papers, have lists of people it can reach out to, and manage the hidden minutiae required to combat these issues. Because Next time it may not be Facebook, it may be the GoI itself, or reliance.

> We need to build a more lasting institution to prepare in advance for future papers, have lists of people it can reach out to, and manage the hidden minutiae required to combat these issues. Which is exactly what we will do.

Eagerly awaited. I wouldn't be surprised if something else comes up around May, or December again this year.

Re: India bans discriminatory pricing based on source/destination/app/content

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "What Facebook wants is our less fortunate brothers and sisters should be able to poke each other and play Candy Crush, but not be able to look up a fact on Google, or learn something on Khan Academy or sell their produce on a commodity market or even search for a job," he said. Indians use connectivity very differently than the rest of the world(or at least different from the developed countries). To Indians, phon…

>it's just that Hindi Wikipedia and Google suck And you think enabling tens of millions of people to access these resources will make them....worse? Wikipedia is a community encyclopedia, by its very nature it gets better the more people access and use it, the more editors there are translating articles from other languages, etc. You have not listed a single thing that would make it a net positive for a corporation t…

> And you think enabling tens of millions of people to access these resources will make them....worse?

Nope, just saying that non-English Indian language internet sucks. Yes it gets better when more and more people are using it, but that still doesn't change the fact that millions of people currently don't have internet in a form which they can use to make their lives better.

> What do you say to the Indian coder who today is working on his WhatsApp competitor? tough shit, facebook already bought the internet in this country?

Same thing you're going to say to that 18 year old kid in the year 2030 whose life could have been different had he lived in a more connected India.

Re: India bans discriminatory pricing based on source/destination/app/content

#124
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"... is a cliche at this point and should be considered racist in India... " How is that racist? Expressing nationalism is not racist unless in specific other circumstances. In the U.S, Japanese and Korean auto makers were accused of stealing jobs and Latino Americans still are... I see it as a form of nationalism. [edited: to remove Europe and fix punctuation]

Nationalism ? No Sir, this is protectionism and dare I say, Xenophobia.

Not sure what you are talking about. Indians have been more than welcoming to other people. We have been screwed over thousands of years now.

Refusing to be screwed and looking after your interests isn't racism or xenophobia.

Re: India bans discriminatory pricing based on source/destination/app/content

#125
post #114

Mark "tried to solve a non existent problem" and fell over. India is not a country where everyone rides on bullocarts or tuk tuks. Its a fast developing nation. Its not what you see in Hollywood movies or western medias. India do not need help on the internet side of things.

> Its a fast developing nation

The benefits of development are very unevenly distributed. Some areas are the equal of any first world country...and others lag behind even the poorest African countries.

> India do not need help on the internet side of things.

The 800 million Indians [1] without internet might disagree with that.

I think you've forgotten just how freaking big India is. They have 400 million people online, which is the second most of any country (only China has more, with 670 million online)...yet they are so big that this is only 1/3 of their population.

[1] Indian population: 1200 million - 400 million with access [2] = 800 million without.

[2] http://gadgets.ndtv.com/internet/news/india-to-have-402-mill...

Re: India bans discriminatory pricing based on source/destination/app/content

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it's just that Hindi Wikipedia and Google suck And you think enabling tens of millions of people to access these resources will make them....worse? Wikipedia is a community encyclopedia, by its very nature it gets better the more people access and use it, the more editors there are translating articles from other languages, etc. You have not listed a single thing that would make it a net positive for a corporation t…

> And you think enabling tens of millions of people to access these resources will make them....worse? Nope, just saying that non-English Indian language internet sucks. Yes it gets better when more and more people are using it, but that still doesn't change the fact that millions of people currently don't have internet in a form which they can use to make their lives better. > What do you say to the Indian coder who…

>>Same thing you're going to say to that 18 year old kid in the year 2030 whose life could have been different had he lived in a more connected India.

There is a patient suffering from a heart disease, medicine arrives in a few days.

You seem to be suggesting that another drug, which can relieve the patient of some of the pains for the next hour, but is sure to kill the patient in the next few months be administered to the patient immediately.

Re: India bans discriminatory pricing based on source/destination/app/content

#127
post #115
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nationalism ? No Sir, this is protectionism and dare I say, Xenophobia.

Whatever you call it it works really well and India is stupid to play by the colonialist's rules. Look at China, they banned or restricted all the western web companies now they're home to thriving new web giants. With all of India's world class programmers where is India's Baidu or Wechat or Weibo or Alibaba?

Same place where France's Google, Germany's Amazon is at, they don't need it. China is wasting effort by creating things because they don't wanna use the things rest of the world uses, and the rest of the world doesn't wanna use their things because it would be giving power to a non-liberal democracy.

Re: India bans discriminatory pricing based on source/destination/app/content

#128
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "What Facebook wants is our less fortunate brothers and sisters should be able to poke each other and play Candy Crush, but not be able to look up a fact on Google, or learn something on Khan Academy or sell their produce on a commodity market or even search for a job," he said. Indians use connectivity very differently than the rest of the world(or at least different from the developed countries). To Indians, phon…

I love the Ghosts of East India Company are always invoked when a foreign company enters India with heft, this was said of Coke, Pepsi and now when referring to Facebook Basics and Amazon. Of course, the stone walling of Foreign Retailers like Walmart. Anybody who talks about EIC is a protectionist trying to play on Colonial insecurities. Having grown up in Socialist India, the demagogue who summons East India Compan…

People who opposed coke were a minority, who weren't taken seriously by their own political representatives.

Slow adoption of technology had more to do with fear of automation and job losses, than anything.

Re: India bans discriminatory pricing based on source/destination/app/content

#129
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatever you call it it works really well and India is stupid to play by the colonialist's rules. Look at China, they banned or restricted all the western web companies now they're home to thriving new web giants. With all of India's world class programmers where is India's Baidu or Wechat or Weibo or Alibaba?

Same place where France's Google, Germany's Amazon is at, they don't need it. China is wasting effort by creating things because they don't wanna use the things rest of the world uses, and the rest of the world doesn't wanna use their things because it would be giving power to a non-liberal democracy.

>>Same place where France's Google, Germany's Amazon is at, they don't need it.

Germany doesn't have their Amazon. They have their BMW's and Volkswagen's. That's their Amazon.

>>China is wasting effort by creating things because they don't wanna use the things rest of the world uses

So why did Ford have to create his company when Volkswagen existed?

>>rest of the world doesn't wanna use their things because it would be giving power to a non-liberal democracy.

Democracy doesn't mean two hoots in a world where economy dictates everything from domestic policy to international policy.

Absolutely nothing wrong in being self sufficient. Being self sufficient has helped Asian economies more than we know. India and China both have nuclear programs, our own capabilities to run our space programs, and launch our satellite and take of ourselves and our economies.

If anything we should be building our capabilities than depending on other nations.

Re: India bans discriminatory pricing based on source/destination/app/content

#130
https://www.facebook.com/zuck/posts/10102641883915251

Everyone in the world should have access to the internet. That's why we launched Internet.org with so many different initiatives -- including extending networks through solar-powered planes, satellites and lasers, providing free data access through Free Basics, reducing data use through apps, and empowering local entrepreneurs through Express Wi-Fi. Today India's telecom regulator decided to restrict programs that provide free access to data. This restricts one of Internet.org's initiatives, Free Basics, as well as programs by other organizations that provide free access to data. While we're disappointed with today's decision, I want to personally communicate that we are committed to keep working to break down barriers to connectivity in India and around the world. Internet.org has many initiatives, and we will keep working until everyone has access to the internet. Our work with Internet.org around the world has already improved many people's lives. More than 19 million people in 38 countries have been connected through our different programs. Connecting India is an important goal we won't give up on, because more than a billion people in India don't have access to the internet. We know that connecting them can help lift people out of poverty, create millions of jobs and spread education opportunities. We care about these people, and that's why we're so committed to connecting them. Our mission is to make the world more open and connected. That mission continues, and so does our commitment to India.

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