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Obama Pledges $4B to Computer Science in US Schools

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Re: Obama Pledges $4B to Computer Science in US Schools

#121

Post by Strom »

chrismcb wrote: post #115
codingdave wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people are not going to be novelists, but all students learn to write. Most people are not going to be mathematicians, but they all learn basic math. Sure, if you are bad at it, it will frustrate you. Go talk to any 10 year old and you will find this is already true for existing subject. Pick any subject - learning it in school doesn't mean you are going to do it for a career, but it is part of education so that…

In an average person's day to day life they will read and write things. They will also have the opportunity to perform basic math. Sales, left over change, how much time is left. They may even use a computer. But the average person will never even come close to programming at all. Let alone on a regular basis. I think it is important to have it available. It might be worth introducing it as a small subject. But progr…

It wasn't that long ago that you could have said the same thing about the avarage person never even coming close to reading/writing. The avarage person doesn't come close to programming largely because they don't know how. Improving our education & tooling will go a long way to solving this.

Re: Obama Pledges $4B to Computer Science in US Schools

#123

Post by ethbro »

bobwaycott wrote: post #97
sandworm101 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Computer equipment for schools is all about limiting how they can be used. iPad are given trackers. Desktops are locked behind content filters. The last thing anyone wants is some kid running unauthorized code.

I think the last thing anyone wants in a school system is some kid accessing porn, or something judged to be equally offensive. I see school tech policies each year. They're never worried about, and rarely ever mention anything that could arguably be interpreted as, prohibiting running unauthorized code. That would require school administrators to know what unauthorized code is.

My curriculum: give a student a laptop with a pornography filter compiled with debugging symbols, a compiler, and a book on reverse engineering and exploiting.

Never underestimate the power of hormone-driven learning.

Re: Obama Pledges $4B to Computer Science in US Schools

#124

Post by sandworm101 »

serge2k wrote: post #116
sandworm101 wrote: post #69

How much of this will go to good teachers and interesting programs? And how much will simply be spent on overpriced machines (microsoft) and proprietary "connected classroom" concepts (apple)? You don't need much equipment to teach CS. Basic machines will do. And there is no need to spend any money on software these days (f/oss). I worry that this money is less an educational initiative and more a handout to those co…

This is more fitting with the US style of "just toss money at it" philosophy. Spending money effectively is hard, but the US has absurd amounts so just try to outspend the inefficiency instead.

It is hard for the feds to do more than throw money. Education is a state or even a local issue. Obama cannot be seen telling school boards what to teach else half the country recoil from the concept.

Re: Obama Pledges $4B to Computer Science in US Schools

#125

Post by freshyill »

uglysexy wrote: post #110
sandworm101 wrote: post #69

How much of this will go to good teachers and interesting programs? And how much will simply be spent on overpriced machines (microsoft) and proprietary "connected classroom" concepts (apple)? You don't need much equipment to teach CS. Basic machines will do. And there is no need to spend any money on software these days (f/oss). I worry that this money is less an educational initiative and more a handout to those co…

Exactly - handouts. Just like Obamacare (Healthcare.gov). Wouldn't be surprised if it goes to Michele Obama's crony connections or to donors to his 2012 campaign. I do think it is a worthwhile & noble cause to help low income communities with higher education and/or training to help get well paying jobs.

Also, Bill Ayers Benghazi Muslim birth certificate, right?

Re: Obama Pledges $4B to Computer Science in US Schools

#126

Post by sandworm101 »

bobwaycott wrote: post #97
sandworm101 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Computer equipment for schools is all about limiting how they can be used. iPad are given trackers. Desktops are locked behind content filters. The last thing anyone wants is some kid running unauthorized code.

I think the last thing anyone wants in a school system is some kid accessing porn, or something judged to be equally offensive. I see school tech policies each year. They're never worried about, and rarely ever mention anything that could arguably be interpreted as, prohibiting running unauthorized code. That would require school administrators to know what unauthorized code is.

Can I download a linux distro via a bittorrent client, then boot into that distro? Can run metasploit on a school machine attached to the school network?

There are plenty of things worse these days than kids downloading porn. Top of the list: kids creating porn. Terrorism, bomb threats, malware, cyberstalking, organizing flashmobs ... there are plenty of ways for kids to cause real trouble for a school far beyond them downloading adult content.

Re: Obama Pledges $4B to Computer Science in US Schools

#128

Post by littletimmy »

IMHO, it is a mistake to teach kids something like computer science early on in school. The focus of a school should be to teach kids transferrable skills in the classics: mathematics, art, latin, etc. The students will always have time to specialize, but they will never get a chance to build a solid foundation.

Re: Obama Pledges $4B to Computer Science in US Schools

#129

Post by ori_b »

As I said elsewhere: That money needs to go directly to raising teacher salaries. Currently, teaching is a pretty crappy career for anyone that's not extremely self sacrificing and idealistic.

Starting salaries for a teacher -- after additional years in school -- are something like a half to a third of a salary for a programmer in the USA, as far as I can tell. The upper bound for salary also seems much higher in industry. So, salarywise, it's a bad choice.

The job is seen as socially important, but not to the degree that enough for amazingly talented people to flock to it in the numbers that are needed. So, prestigewise, its' also a bad choice.

As a result, the bulk of teaching positions are not held by the best and brightest. They're often not even held by the good and bright. There aren't enough people who would prioritize children over their own futures. And as long as teaching suffers from a lack of respectability or a lack of salary, teaching is going to suffer. And before you blame the institutions -- institutions are run by the people who went into this system.

Re: Obama Pledges $4B to Computer Science in US Schools

#130

Post by cellularmitosis »

dreamdu5t wrote: post #45
nacs wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Learning a programming language is also about as difficult (and probably easier for some) than learning a foreign language (Spanish, French, etc) for 1-2 years which most states require.

I would just like to point out that students in the US do not actually learn languages in school. The "1-2 years" is hardly sufficient and US students do not graduate with the ability to read/write/speak another language besides English, as kids in countries like Taiwan, Netherlands, etc. do

I was arguing with a friend about this long ago. He won the argument by simply asking me to translate the word "rectangle" into Spanish. It really opened my eyes to just how inadequate my foreign language education had been.
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