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Lawsuits Claim Disney Colluded to Replace U.S. Workers with Immigrants

nytimes.com

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Re: Lawsuits Claim Disney Colluded to Replace U.S. Workers with Immigrants

#121

Post by prostoalex »

calvinbhai wrote: post #54
untog wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real fix to this is to make sure that people brought over with an H1-B can easily change jobs When I was on an H1B visa I changed jobs multiple times, very easily. Part of the problem is that people (including potential employers) aren't aware how easy it is.

I think he meant, change jobs without needing to file for an H1b transfer or any documentation. Once a high skilled immigrant is in US, instead of giving work permit to a specific employer, make it so that its a work permit, with a time limit. 3 years, immigrant can work anywhere, any number of employers. Guess how many illicit h1b employers will be interested in bringing an immigrant, if they are not guaranteed that…

The transfer documentation is not that onerous, to be honest. Allegedly it's a gatekeeper against H1 program turning into a spout for unqualified immigration where "an employer" hires you for extremely high salary, and you quit on day 2 to start an exciting career in dishwashing.

Re: Lawsuits Claim Disney Colluded to Replace U.S. Workers with Immigrants

#122

Post by prostoalex »

davidw wrote: post #6

The real fix to this is to make sure that people brought over with an H1-B can easily change jobs. That way they're not beholden to some low-wage job, and companies that bring people in merely for low wages will face high rates of churn.

Easier than current H1 transfers? You're introducing a loophole where unqualified labor will be hired (and let go on day 2) to switch to even lower-wage jobs.

Re: Lawsuits Claim Disney Colluded to Replace U.S. Workers with Immigrants

#123

Post by [deleted] »

rayiner wrote: post #71
davidw wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is special about the number 65,000? Absolutely nothing. It's central planning for something that doesn't require it: http://johnhcochrane.blogspot.com/2014/06/the-optimal-number...

That's a pretty ignorant article. The limiting factor for immigration is how quickly you can Americanize immigrants, not land area. As for why it's imperative to Americanize immigrants. Look at how much trouble the U.S. has had cultivating democracy in places like Iraq. Most people acknowledge that the Iraqi people aren't ready for Democracy. Do you think they would be any more ready for democracy if you moved them e…

[deleted]

Re: Lawsuits Claim Disney Colluded to Replace U.S. Workers with Immigrants

#124

Post by prostoalex »

e40 wrote: post #111
geebee wrote: post #104

While I'm glad to see the NYTimes covering this issue, I am disappointed with the headline. The US takes over 1.2 million immigrants legally into the country every year. These new free and full citizens pursue educations and careers in response to their personal life interests and market signals. You know, that whole pesky freedom thing that corporations often despise in their workforce. Some enter high tech, some do…

The US takes over 1.2 million immigrants legally into the country every year. These new free and full citizens pursue... They aren't citizens right away. Getting even a green card takes about 5 years. Citizenship another 5-10 years.

Depends on the program. Winners of green card lottery, for example, are pretty much instant green card holders.

Re: Lawsuits Claim Disney Colluded to Replace U.S. Workers with Immigrants

#125

Post by whybroke »

utternerd wrote: post #38

If that replacement can serve the same purpose, and give approximately the same value to the company, why should the native and/or higher-waged person expect to have priority?

If I can find a better use for someones property than he is currently putting it to, why shouldn't I steal it?

Or have we entered an era where hereditary property rights are so much more valued than a citizens rights that we can no longer even see the analogy here.

Re: Lawsuits Claim Disney Colluded to Replace U.S. Workers with Immigrants

#126

Post by prostoalex »

logfromblammo wrote: post #89
Fat_Rat wrote: post #35

I'm not against immigration, but the most egregious offense here was having the replacement workers trained by current employees as a stipulation of their severance. Here's the article that was posted here a little over half a year ago. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/04/us/last-task-after-layoff-... It's nice to see some closure.

The intent of the H1B is supposedly to provide foreign workers for labor categories where no American national can be found to perform the work. If there is any training going on there at all, that is proof of fraud. If the ones doing the training are American nationals, that just makes it more egregious. Hadean justice would alter the H1B visa category such that the guest worker could perform no function for the com…

The entities are different. Disney moved the contract to an outsourcing company. 8The outsourcing company8 then could not find an American national to perform the work.

Re: Lawsuits Claim Disney Colluded to Replace U.S. Workers with Immigrants

#127

Post by prostoalex »

crapolasplatter wrote: post #30

Wait A second something doesn't make sense here. I thought the main reason for H1-B visas was because there aren't enough American workers? So why would they get rid of American workers they already had ,that have been doing the job? Surely it couldn't be because they lower pay of the H1-B workers?

Disney would not be the employer of H1-B workers, the outsourcing company would be.

Disney had a project cost of $X, the outsourcing company moved in offering to accomplish similar goals for $Y, where $Y is significantly less than $X. How the outsourcing company plans to accomplish this - through lower-paid workers, or some secret process management kungfu, or having 100x workers accomplish much, much more in a short amount of time, is a mystery for outsourcer to resolve.

Re: Lawsuits Claim Disney Colluded to Replace U.S. Workers with Immigrants

#128

Post by jlebar »

rayiner wrote: post #71
davidw wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is special about the number 65,000? Absolutely nothing. It's central planning for something that doesn't require it: http://johnhcochrane.blogspot.com/2014/06/the-optimal-number...

That's a pretty ignorant article. The limiting factor for immigration is how quickly you can Americanize immigrants, not land area. As for why it's imperative to Americanize immigrants. Look at how much trouble the U.S. has had cultivating democracy in places like Iraq. Most people acknowledge that the Iraqi people aren't ready for Democracy. Do you think they would be any more ready for democracy if you moved them e…

I am deeply saddened that this borderline racism passes for civil discourse these days. :(

Re: Lawsuits Claim Disney Colluded to Replace U.S. Workers with Immigrants

#129

Post by whybroke »

geebee wrote: post #104

While I'm glad to see the NYTimes covering this issue, I am disappointed with the headline. The US takes over 1.2 million immigrants legally into the country every year. These new free and full citizens pursue educations and careers in response to their personal life interests and market signals. You know, that whole pesky freedom thing that corporations often despise in their workforce. Some enter high tech, some do…

Well said. In fact why not simply add 65000 to the net US immigration, abolish H1B and let the much praised market forces attract or repel people to those alleged unfilled jobs by rising wages.

Re: Lawsuits Claim Disney Colluded to Replace U.S. Workers with Immigrants

#130

Post by nommm-nommm »

protomyth wrote: post #46
outworlder wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is, it is the main reason, and the purpose of the visa. It doesn't mean that all companies use it for that purpose, despite what they say. Note that, according to the article, the laid off people seem to be (relatively speaking) older, with multiple years in the company. It is likely that their salaries are higher than what management would like them to be. My theory makes the prediction that the H1 holders are young…

> Is, it is the main reason, and the purpose of the visa. It doesn't mean that all companies use it for that purpose, despite what they say. Yes, it is the main purpose: http://www.dol.gov/whd/immigration/h1b.htm If the companies are not using it for that purpose and telling the government something different then they are committing fraud.

Law firms have openly admitted to advising businesses in this kind of fraud!

http://www.post-gazette.com/business/businessnews/2007/06/21...

"Our goal is clearly not to find a qualified and interested U.S. worker, and, you know, that in a sense that sounds funny, but it's what we're trying to do here. We are complying with the law, fully, but our objective is to get this person a greencard.... Certainly we are not going to try to find a place where [American] applicants would be most numerous.... if necessary schedule an interview, go through the whole process to find a legal basis to disqualify [the American applicant] for this particular position."

https://youtu.be/TCbFEgFajGU

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