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Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

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Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#121

Post by lmm »

strictnein wrote: post #35
drzaiusapelord wrote: post #27

Its by the same guy who donated to causes doing their best to make sure two people in love can't get married due to their gender. Sociopathy has many forms and its obvious to me that Eich is just an untrustworthy guy with a lot of bad ideas. Low-rent projects like these is just further evidence that you need a founder/leader you can trust. Its clear he's exhausted his social capital and at age 54 is far away from his…

Bad ideas like Javascript and Mozilla.

I think the web would be much better off without either of those. Without Javascript we would have got real programming languages on the web quicker (maybe tklets would have taken off). Without Mozilla we would have got a sensible box model quicker, a sensible way of embedding audio/video quicker, and more development on the open-source-from-the-ground-up (and, not coincidentally I think, higher quality code) KHTML sooner.

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#122

Post by ferentchak »

LordKano wrote: post #103
logingone wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't adblock for privacy, security, or speed. Those are just nice-side effects. I adblock because I do not want to be manipulated into buying things I do not need. Interesting. I'm the opposite. I've yet to encounter an ad that has a hope in hell of manipulating me at all. I couldn't be more dismissive of them. And if I encounter one too often my dislike of the company starts to grow. "It's show time, and you've b…

I agree with you. An ad may make me aware of a product of which I had not previously been but it's not going to induce me to buy something in which I had no previous interest. If I'm thinking of Widget Class X Brand A, an ad might make me aware of Brand B and I may eventually purchase the Brand B but I was going to purchase Widget Class X anyway. If I had no interest in Widget Class Z, it doesn't matter how many ads…

What if the ad makes you aware of a "problem" that you didn't know you had that they have a product that can address. Think for example an ad reinforces the underlying fear that you are not social enough because you enjoy programming by yourself. It explains that a pill to help "anxiety" is what you need to be healthy or maybe a class to help you become better spoken will change your life for the better.

Many people fail to note that an advertisement often creates or reinforces your fear and sells you the solution to the newly created problem.

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#123

Post by smacktoward »

jordigh wrote: post #113
smacktoward wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're willing to pay out of your own pocket for all these things you enjoy, right? Right? Right?

Right. Sell premium movie ticket prices that do not have ads (although I like previews, those can stay). Sell me a subscription to duckduckgo, payable in bitcoins or similar. Paywall every newspaper website. These are far more honest approaches in my view.

> Paywall every newspaper website.

Nearly every newspaper website is already paywalled, and every time someone posts a story from those sites to HN all the comments are people complaining about the paywalls.

HN even added a special little link to let people skip around them, because why would we want to encourage people to pay for quality work they appreciate?

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#124

Post by Brakenshire »

hapless wrote: post #16

It sounds like their plan is to block all ads, then sell the new ad inventory created by all the blank space on pages. Why on earth would users want this browser?

Because it's quicker. That's why they've got that speed comparison video as the first thing you see on the site.

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#125

Post by sevensor »

Nursie wrote: post #15
kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the most annoying thing about ad blocking going mainstream. It was a rare site that bothered to detect us before Apple got into the game.

Personally I think it's very healthy and marks the beginning of the next stage of the web - how does it work in a post-advertising world?

Ads become integrated with, and indistinguishable from, copy.

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#126

Post by coldpie »

LordKano wrote: post #104
rmc wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The percentage of sociopathy does not match the percentage of homophobes opposed to marriage equality, a number which has changed a lot in living memory.

Virtually no one was opposed to marriage equality. Many people were and are opposed to the judicial redefinition of marriage.

Uh, no, don't try to rewrite history. The attacks were directed at gay people.

Quoting this article:

Early on, Prop 8’s supporters decided to focus their campaign primarily on children, stoking parents’ fears about gay people brainwashing their kids with pro-gay messages or, implicitly, turning their children gay.

Another notorious commercial shows an earnest school administrator fretting that a “new health curriculum” that mentions gay marriage will “mess up” children with reference to “gay attraction.”

This message of belittlement cut across pretty much every pro-Prop 8 ad—ads that ran incessantly in the state for months. The campaign’s strategy was to debase gay families as deviant and unhealthy while insinuating that gay people are engaged in a full-scale campaign to convert children to their cause.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2014/04/04/brendan_eich_s...

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#127

Post by jpadkins »

jordigh wrote: post #85
FredFredrickson wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this were attempted, I think we'd have a LOT of talk about what truly is an ad and what isn't. I mean, the web banners and billboards we see every day don't do a lot to actually sell products. But your friend telling you they really love a particular product helps a lot. But in a society where a movement such as you've described was in motion, would both be equally as bad? Are both not manipulative in their own wa…

I'm thinking something like what São Paulo implemented, https://www.adbusters.org/magazine/73/Sao_Paulo_A_City_Witho... Or, perhaps, you only get ads when requested. "I'm in the market for a new refrigerator. Please show me ads for refrigerators." But still, I have a fundamental problem with how all advertising has a slant, and at least a hint of a lie or manipulation. I do not like being lied to or manipulated, but…

you should stop browsing the web if you don't want to be manipulated or read content with a slant. 99% of the organic content on the web is trying to manipulate you.

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#128

Post by colept »

jordigh wrote: post #70

I will repeat this one more time, because Eich seems to be missing the point.[1] I don't adblock for privacy, security, or speed. Those are just nice-side effects. I adblock because I do not want to be manipulated into buying things I do not need. I wonder what would happen if, as a society, we said, "enough, no more ads". Would it really be the capitalist apocalypse that the ad industry is trying to make us believe…

> because I do not want to be manipulated into buying things I do not need

So in 10 years, are you going to not visit any website because all the advertising will go native?

Most people are scared of the devil they know, but few are afraid of the devil they don't.

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#129

Post by jt2190 »

jordigh wrote: post #97
logingone wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't adblock for privacy, security, or speed. Those are just nice-side effects. I adblock because I do not want to be manipulated into buying things I do not need. Interesting. I'm the opposite. I've yet to encounter an ad that has a hope in hell of manipulating me at all. I couldn't be more dismissive of them. And if I encounter one too often my dislike of the company starts to grow. "It's show time, and you've b…

> I've yet to encounter an ad that has a hope in hell of manipulating me at all. If you know what "just do it", "the happiest place on Earth", "think different", or "the world's most advanced operating system" refer to, you've already been manipulated. A lot of ads are just about making sure you have a particular brand in mind and you're keenly aware of that brand's existence. Then, when time comes around to actually…

  > If you know [random thing]... you've already been manipulated.
If this is the proposed legal standard, then parents should be banned first.

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#130

Post by Joeri »

jordigh wrote: post #70

I will repeat this one more time, because Eich seems to be missing the point.[1] I don't adblock for privacy, security, or speed. Those are just nice-side effects. I adblock because I do not want to be manipulated into buying things I do not need. I wonder what would happen if, as a society, we said, "enough, no more ads". Would it really be the capitalist apocalypse that the ad industry is trying to make us believe…

The purpose of advertising is to make you buy more than you need. The economy relies strongly on people buying much more than they need. If you got rid of advertising, it would temporarily destroy the economy, until a new normal is reached, and long term it would save the environment due to heavily reduced consumption. Also, it could bring about the keynesian fantasy where people work only 12 hours a week, because that's all they need to work to produce what is needed.

Then again, maybe it wouldn't make a difference. It would be an interesting experiment nevertheless.

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