Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The High-Stakes Race to Rid the World of Human Drivers

theatlantic.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 156 posts

Re: The High-Stakes Race to Rid the World of Human Drivers

#121

Post by pc86 »

DanBC wrote: post #117
nostromo wrote: post #8

One thing I haven't heard much about is how humans and AI drivers will interact. If we all assume that AI cars are going to be very conservative and very competent drivers, will people take advantage of that? Will human drivers become even bigger assholes that cut off AI drivers at every possibility, knowing that an AI will not hit them? Why wait in a big line for an exit, when you know an AI car will always let you…

AI Cars are going to have a lot of cameras and always-on recording. Aggressive driving would risk being reported to law enforcement. > Pedestrians and cyclists may also learn that they can freely cut off an AI car at anytime they please. Why wait for a walk signal? Why walk all the way to the intersection? Just saunter across anywhere you like, so long as you cross in front of an AI car. That's probably a good thing.…

Jaywalking is a crime for a reason, because it's potentially deadly to the pedestrian. It seems to be much worse in small/mid-size cities (probably because of less overall traffic). I've had people literally jog into my lane then walk the remaining 4 feet to the sidewalk while I slow from 35 to 10 to avoid hitting them. I think if half the cars on the road are autonomous and will just stop no matter what you will not see the decrease in pedestrian injuries and deaths some are expecting.

Re: The High-Stakes Race to Rid the World of Human Drivers

#122

Post by GVIrish »

DanBC wrote: post #117
nostromo wrote: post #8

One thing I haven't heard much about is how humans and AI drivers will interact. If we all assume that AI cars are going to be very conservative and very competent drivers, will people take advantage of that? Will human drivers become even bigger assholes that cut off AI drivers at every possibility, knowing that an AI will not hit them? Why wait in a big line for an exit, when you know an AI car will always let you…

AI Cars are going to have a lot of cameras and always-on recording. Aggressive driving would risk being reported to law enforcement. > Pedestrians and cyclists may also learn that they can freely cut off an AI car at anytime they please. Why wait for a walk signal? Why walk all the way to the intersection? Just saunter across anywhere you like, so long as you cross in front of an AI car. That's probably a good thing.…

>> Pedestrians and cyclists may also learn that they can freely cut off an AI car at anytime they please. Why wait for a walk signal? Why walk all the way to the intersection? Just saunter across anywhere you like, so long as you cross in front of an AI car.

>That's probably a good thing. Car drivers need to get out of the mindset that they own the roads.

The problem with that is the time period before AI cars are ubiquitous. In my area I've already seen pedestrians act far more carelessly now that the pedestrian right of way laws have been enhanced and there's been an uptick in pedestrian fatalities. Sometimes giving people the impression that something is safe makes them behave so much more recklessly than they would have originally.

Re: The High-Stakes Race to Rid the World of Human Drivers

#123

Post by pc86 »

jacobolus wrote: post #89
rdtsc wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cars should yield to pedestrians and cyclists The problem is if they don't and pedestrian gets killed there is not way to resurect the pedestrian, and start over. Therefore, pedestrian's goals is staying alive regardless of what laws are written in the books. To put it another way, most countries out there have laws about "cars yield to pedestrians on crossings" but in a lot of places I wouldn't want to prove a poi…

I would be very happy if all taxis and other commercial vehicles (Uber, Lyft, etc.) would have their speed tracked and automatic citations issued for going more than 15 mph above the speed limit. As it is the taxis and Uber cars speed along my 25mph limit residential street at 50mph+ all night long.

Why not just increase the speed limit by 15 mph and issue citations automatically at SL+1?

Re: The High-Stakes Race to Rid the World of Human Drivers

#124

Post by pc86 »

rdtsc wrote: post #43
woofyman wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to live in a society where every car becomes a tool of law enforcement.

It's almost there. There are license plates readers everywhere, toll booths record your times and toll gates use. Also note, it doesn't have to be a "government" thing, where you'd expect some protection (at least on paper). It can be a completely private affair between the car makers and insurnace companies. In fact it is already almost there and it is called CLUE ( https://www.privacyrights.org/clue-and-you-how-ins…

On my state's main toll road (75 mph speed limit) it is common to be going 90 in the right lane and have most people zip past you like you're standing still. The design of the road only allows one or two places for speed enforcement every 10-15 miles or so.

I've long wondered why the toll authority does not simply do the math on entry and exit and send citations to the top 5-10% of speeders. It's generate many thousands of dollars in revenue for sure.

Re: The High-Stakes Race to Rid the World of Human Drivers

#125

Post by pc86 »

shpx wrote: post #118
woofyman wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to live in a society where every car becomes a tool of law enforcement.

Some lady did a hit and run, and her new Ford called the police [0]. There are surveillance cameras in the park by my house. I've given up, fighting this is like trying to stop a tsunami. [0] http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/dec/07/florida-wo...

Fighting what? Her Ford "called the police" in that it automatically reported a collision had taken place. You make it sound like it sent a message saying "my owner committed a crime, go get her" which is not what happened.

Are you saying the world would be better off if she had gotten away with a hit and run?

Re: The High-Stakes Race to Rid the World of Human Drivers

#126

Post by robmcm »

unclebucknasty wrote: post #54
nostromo wrote: post #8

One thing I haven't heard much about is how humans and AI drivers will interact. If we all assume that AI cars are going to be very conservative and very competent drivers, will people take advantage of that? Will human drivers become even bigger assholes that cut off AI drivers at every possibility, knowing that an AI will not hit them? Why wait in a big line for an exit, when you know an AI car will always let you…

For me the bigger question is WRT the ongoing quest to marginalize human beings. Once we automate everything, then what?

I imagine the same argument was made about the industrial revolution.

There is still a lot to work for once we remove the more mundane parts of our existence.

Re: The High-Stakes Race to Rid the World of Human Drivers

#127

Post by DanBC »

pc86 wrote: post #121
DanBC wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI Cars are going to have a lot of cameras and always-on recording. Aggressive driving would risk being reported to law enforcement. > Pedestrians and cyclists may also learn that they can freely cut off an AI car at anytime they please. Why wait for a walk signal? Why walk all the way to the intersection? Just saunter across anywhere you like, so long as you cross in front of an AI car. That's probably a good thing.…

Jaywalking is a crime for a reason, because it's potentially deadly to the pedestrian. It seems to be much worse in small/mid-size cities (probably because of less overall traffic). I've had people literally jog into my lane then walk the remaining 4 feet to the sidewalk while I slow from 35 to 10 to avoid hitting them. I think if half the cars on the road are autonomous and will just stop no matter what you will not…

> Jaywalking is a crime for a reason

... in some parts of the world.

Re: The High-Stakes Race to Rid the World of Human Drivers

#128

Post by e40 »

thrownaway2424 wrote: post #14
jurassic wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really see the problem with this. Cars should yield to pedestrians and cyclists, and the only reason they don't always do so now is because of some impatient humans at the wheel who prioritize their speed over the safety of other road users. Without road-raging human drivers behind the wheel, is the vehicle occupant going to care that they got to nap a few minutes longer on the way to work? Or got to read a f…

I think you underestimate how crazy and obnoxious people can be. Take San Francisco, as an example. There are people who are poor and disenfranchised, and mentally ill, who feel that it gives them some power to saunter out into traffic and make everybody stop. With an autonomous car, that deranged person can just sit down in front of the car, bringing everything to a halt. Take New York as another example. For years…

As someone that commutes to work via foot (for 20 years, 4 miles round trip), living across from SF, what you describe is by far the exception. The rule? Rude and dangerous drivers not yielding to legally crossing pedestrians.

I would put the ratio of bad pedestrians to bad drivers at 1:1000.

Re: The High-Stakes Race to Rid the World of Human Drivers

#129

Post by DanBC »

GVIrish wrote: post #122
DanBC wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI Cars are going to have a lot of cameras and always-on recording. Aggressive driving would risk being reported to law enforcement. > Pedestrians and cyclists may also learn that they can freely cut off an AI car at anytime they please. Why wait for a walk signal? Why walk all the way to the intersection? Just saunter across anywhere you like, so long as you cross in front of an AI car. That's probably a good thing.…

>> Pedestrians and cyclists may also learn that they can freely cut off an AI car at anytime they please. Why wait for a walk signal? Why walk all the way to the intersection? Just saunter across anywhere you like, so long as you cross in front of an AI car. >That's probably a good thing. Car drivers need to get out of the mindset that they own the roads. The problem with that is the time period before AI cars are ub…

Yes, car drivers need to learn to drive, and that means they need to learn to slow the fuck down when there are pedestrians around.

When a car driver says "careless pedestrian" I hear "inattentive, selfish, driver".

This is probably a cultural thing, because jaywalking isn't a crime here.

Re: The High-Stakes Race to Rid the World of Human Drivers

#130

Post by vonmoltke »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #107
TheEzEzz wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If those high targets are the only things remaining then I'd say the race is pretty close to finishing. I'd be more pessimistic if features on the todo list still included 'identifying stop signs', 'recognizing people', 'not killing people', and 'driving more smoothly than a teenager'.

What's more, people are forgetting that normal traffic does not go through wilderness, and roads are not just slabs of concrete in a line. We draw markings on the road. We put signs next to them. It stands to reason that as self-driving cars will be slowly deployed (I don't see them rolling out simultaneously in sunny California and in snowy Switzerland), we'll be updating road infrastructure with signs and other obj…

Considering how poorly current roads are maintained I don't hold out hope for anything that requires more maintenance. Many roads I drive on are not properly marked for human drivers as it is.
Post reply on HN