Europe Remotely – EU-friendly remote dev jobs • Hacker News Board

Re: Europe Remotely – EU-friendly remote dev jobs

#121

Post by Inthenameofmine » Thu, Dec 10, 2015, 3:54 PM UTC

saiya-jin wrote: post #103

Inthenameofmine wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I definitely don't agree with this sentiment > I'd love for the EU and the US to become more Anti-immigrant (thankfully it's rising) I definitely agree with everything else you just said. I'm a Swiss citizen, Swiss born and raised, US educated, but my parents are not from Switzerland, and my name is not Swiss. I look as European as anybody else. I couldn't even get a data entry job in Switzerland dammit. The US…

correct me if I am wrong, but if I understood correctly: - your parents are non-swiss and non-european, but came here, got you citizenship and adter growing up here you moved to US for university and stayed away - is that right? You shouldn't be surprised what they asked from you - relocation. There are specific laws who companies can employ here, and noone is going to break the law just because you would like to set…

The Swiss example I gave was for staying in Switzerland. I couldn't get a decently paying job in Switzerland as a European (SEE), Swiss citizen, living in Switzerland. At that point I wasn't discussing remote jobs at all. I kid you now, at one point one of the HR people told me jokingly in an interview "I thought you people do nly do Football" WTF??

The problem is that Swiss companies certainly hire you if you have a foreign background (as long as you can do the job), but they will think twice about it, and they expect you to accept a considerably lower salary as a "foreigner" too.

When everybody in the industry talks about "talent shortage" what they really mean is "talent shortage at a lower price point". They get to the lower price point by exploiting immigrants or as in my case people they consider foreigners.

Re: Europe Remotely – EU-friendly remote dev jobs

#122

Post by it_learnses » Thu, Dec 10, 2015, 3:56 PM UTC

ameen wrote: post #104

it_learnses wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a developer living in Canada (emigrated from India a long time ago) and I have heard of and seen many outsourcing horror stories. So I wouldn't say most Indians adhere to "industry standards" in code-quality, etc. They are just in it to make money and many times do a very shitty job. Also, communicating with them isn't very easy. Most Indians think they speak fluent English, but I would say in my experience it's…

I fully agree with what you've said, and unfortunately it's a stereotype permeated by the IT Sweatshops of TCS, Infosys et al. I was brought up in an Urban city, English is the only language I've learnt right from childhood and continue to do so, the language that I'm most fluent in. (yes I can't read or write my native tongue). I do agree that lying on resumes is widespread that some of us (who believe we're upto sn…

I grew up in Mumbai as well. You are probably from upper-middle class, so I don't think all Mumbaikars would classify as learning English as the only language. I think you are in the minority.

I'm going off on a tangent here, but even if English is the only language you speak, it doesn't necessarily make you fluent at communicating with Americans, because you aren't necessarily exposed to the same cultural and linguistic nuances. This can often lead to a lot of miscommunication.

I have met many Indians who are fluent in English and it's the "only thing" they speak and they wear it as a badge with pride. Ironically, these people are worse than the people who are not as fluent in English because they tend to speak English at extremely high speeds as if they are reciting something, which makes it just as hard to understand. And combine that with an accent, and you've lost all the advantage you have as a "native" English speaker.

Re: Europe Remotely – EU-friendly remote dev jobs

#123

Post by dkns » Thu, Dec 10, 2015, 4:10 PM UTC

ameen wrote: post #96

dkns wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> be harassed by less-qualified xenophobic residents Nice generalization. > pay obscene taxes I quickly skimmed the wikipedia article about taxes in India and it seems like if you were to earn as much as companies in Europe are paying for developers you would be either in 30% bracket or 20% bracket. 30% is more than I pay and I live in Europe. Doesn't seem obscene to me.

I have family in the U.K. and the U.S., and my family members in the U.K. have been told "to go back home" when they've been born & raised in that country. Could be a generalisation but one which my family has experienced. Honestly surprised that you pay lesser taxes than us. Not sure which country you're from. I expected the EU to have similar tax brackets. My tax rant was more to do with the fact that taxes contrib…

> Could be a generalisation

What's the total number of people your family had contact with vs number of people that told them 'to go back home'?

> but one which my family has experienced.

To quote hn favorite "The plural of anecdote is not data".

Re: Europe Remotely – EU-friendly remote dev jobs

#124

Post by ameen » Thu, Dec 10, 2015, 4:11 PM UTC

bogomipz wrote: post #111

ameen wrote: post #60

As an Indian, I doubt I'll qualify for work in these companies. The problem for non-EU, non-US devs wishing to work remotely [1] is that most companies can't legally employ you or aren't willing to jump through bureaucratic hoops just to employ you. I'd subscribed to a remote-only jobs board and the issue was that either I didn't qualify for work due to my residency, or the company never really responded. I would say…

Firstly I don't think most of the EU or US companies "have to import a workforce." We have plenty of skilled workers. You are very delusional. Bureaucracy is everywhere, probably one of the worst bureaucracies I have witnessed was in India. I would like to go live and work in Japan but guess what? I can't and I don't feel entitled that I should be able to. As far as your comment about "we wouldn't have to transplant…

They don't have to. I'm talking about the 85,000 yearly H-1B employees + OPT workers. I never slighted U.S. for not having skilled workers, in fact I did mention that U.S. are pretty much pioneers in Software Engineering, CS, etc, they set trends which are copied elsewhere.

Remote workers by contrast would be a cheaper alternative for a business than a H-1B employee since they have to adhere to certain conditions and maybe spend to apply for a GC if the employee requests it.

India has the worst bureaucracies due to corruption and inefficiency (thankfully it's set to change). Nobody would debate that.

I'm aware of incidents where H-1B workers couldn't visit their home country for their parents' funeral because of some document issues. Also, I fail to see how offensive and prejudiced my comments are for pointing out incidents of harassment. And my entire premise is that they don't have to if remote working is an option, thanks for agreeing with me on that.

Re: Europe Remotely – EU-friendly remote dev jobs

#125

Post by simonswords82 » Thu, Dec 10, 2015, 4:15 PM UTC

manuelflara wrote: post #10

This is awesome. One observation: maybe in this case, including the number of subscribers is actually a deterrent for getting people to subscribe. I'm talking about the "Join over 1100 subscribers." line. You may be triggering a "damn, I'm going to have to compete with that many other developers for the same handful of jobs?" response instead of the usual "If that many people trust this guy with their email, it must…

Agreed - perhaps a better metric would be the number of open positions?

Re: Europe Remotely – EU-friendly remote dev jobs

#126

Post by ido » Thu, Dec 10, 2015, 4:16 PM UTC

netcan wrote: post #50

scalesolved wrote: post #46

I think a lot of these job postings would have a lot more success if they showed salary ranges, in fact that just applies to all job postings. Why apply for EU remote working (if living in the EU) when you can remote work for a US based company? The timezone is off but programmers should be able to work autonomously and independently.

Not posting salaries always baffles me. I mean, I understand the negotiating advantage. Maybe also wanting to keep salary information quite within the company. But, surely, this is a relevant piece of information for the person deciding to apply. I'm surprised jobs sites don't enforce it. Only jobs with salary information are allowed.

I've worked my entire career in Germany, Austria & Israel and not once did I see a job ad advertise salary. This might be location dependent?

Re: Europe Remotely – EU-friendly remote dev jobs

#127

Post by victorantos » Thu, Dec 10, 2015, 4:19 PM UTC

netcan wrote: post #50

scalesolved wrote: post #46

I think a lot of these job postings would have a lot more success if they showed salary ranges, in fact that just applies to all job postings. Why apply for EU remote working (if living in the EU) when you can remote work for a US based company? The timezone is off but programmers should be able to work autonomously and independently.

Not posting salaries always baffles me. I mean, I understand the negotiating advantage. Maybe also wanting to keep salary information quite within the company. But, surely, this is a relevant piece of information for the person deciding to apply. I'm surprised jobs sites don't enforce it. Only jobs with salary information are allowed.

You just gave me this idea, I should enforce the salary field for my daily imports for AngJobs(https://github.com/victorantos/AngJobs) Thank you!

Re: Europe Remotely – EU-friendly remote dev jobs

#128

Post by ameen » Thu, Dec 10, 2015, 4:20 PM UTC

it_learnses wrote: post #122

ameen wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fully agree with what you've said, and unfortunately it's a stereotype permeated by the IT Sweatshops of TCS, Infosys et al. I was brought up in an Urban city, English is the only language I've learnt right from childhood and continue to do so, the language that I'm most fluent in. (yes I can't read or write my native tongue). I do agree that lying on resumes is widespread that some of us (who believe we're upto sn…

I grew up in Mumbai as well. You are probably from upper-middle class, so I don't think all Mumbaikars would classify as learning English as the only language. I think you are in the minority. I'm going off on a tangent here, but even if English is the only language you speak, it doesn't necessarily make you fluent at communicating with Americans, because you aren't necessarily exposed to the same cultural and lingui…

I'm not from Mumbai, but from Chennai and have worked in Bangalore. I do speak other languages, English is the one I'm most fluent in. I don't wear this as a badge of pride, it's just the reality.

I do agree that there could be a little bit of a cultural disconnect, accent could be an issue as well. Although it's surprising that those "fluent in English" would have no ideas about stress, intonation, etc but I digress. I wouldn't class myself as a native speaker, only one who is able to communicate properly with a native speaker.

Re: Europe Remotely – EU-friendly remote dev jobs

#129

Post by netcan » Thu, Dec 10, 2015, 4:21 PM UTC

daveguy wrote: post #84

ameen wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry you couldn't detect my sarcasm. But it's disheartening to see U.S. of all places succumb to such stuff [1]. U.S. was built on enterprising immigrants who made it the country it currently is. No other country could then stake a claim to be a melting pot of the world nor could they dominate in so many industries. Software Engineering elsewhere is just following the lead established by American companies. I work w…

Don't be disheartened at [1]. All of the leadership for "his" party came out of the woodwork to condemn his rhetoric. They will now coalesce around a more acceptable candidate. Note he has only had about 25% of 1/2 of the voters. Or about 12.5% total. He will fall and be opposed exactly for this. No matter what your political party just about everyone in the US understands freedom of religion is a foundation (except…

He's a close second (Cruz is a distant 3rd) in the betting odds.

https://sports.ladbrokes.com/en-ie/betting/politics/us-presi...

Re: Europe Remotely – EU-friendly remote dev jobs

#130

Post by ameen » Thu, Dec 10, 2015, 4:22 PM UTC

cmdkeen wrote: post #118

ameen wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fully agree with what you've said, and unfortunately it's a stereotype permeated by the IT Sweatshops of TCS, Infosys et al. I was brought up in an Urban city, English is the only language I've learnt right from childhood and continue to do so, the language that I'm most fluent in. (yes I can't read or write my native tongue). I do agree that lying on resumes is widespread that some of us (who believe we're upto sn…

It isn't just lying on resumes, my Indian colleagues have horror stories of the levels of cheating they experienced doing their CS degrees at Indian universities. They all felt they had to do an MSc at a UK university, at huge expense, in order to be validated because those institutions are trusted.

Totally agree, I'm planning a similar route as well (albeit at American institutions). It's sad how stereotypes affect others who don't necessarily conform to them.