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E-Prime: English without the verb 'to be'

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Re: E-Prime: English without the verb 'to be'

#121

Post by muraiki »

In High School, my English teacher had us write essays in a format that incorporated E-Prime, but I had no idea that it was actually called "E-Prime". In addition to not using forms of "to be," we followed the SEXI format. This meant that every body paragraph was composed of four parts: Statement, Explanation, eXample, and Interpretation (one web site lists this as Importance). I think that in short essays each SEXI paragraph also had to be four sentences long.

The combination of E-Prime and SEXI was a real challenge to write at first, but with practice I found that it led to really solid papers with greater clarity of thought. It was a tremendous help in writing my college senior thesis.

Unlike the article, I didn't try to use either form in my comment. :)

Re: E-Prime: English without the verb 'to be'

#122

Post by lisivka »

murbard2 wrote: post #91
bbayer wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you tell what your native language is? Finnish?

My money is on Ukrainian based on the handle. (Slovak would be a candidate too but less of a fit for "many programmers, etc")

You are right, I am Ukrainian. Ukrainian language is easy to parse: in most cases, just chop largest matching prefixes and suffixes from a word until word root will be left. Then suffixes can be used to understand sentence structure, while roots and prefixes can be used to understand meaning.

Re: E-Prime: English without the verb 'to be'

#123

Post by jdmichal »

level3 wrote: post #92
jdmichal wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does. Specifically, it is carrying an implicit "which is": > E-Prime, [which is] a prescriptive version of the English language, ... That sentence should instead be written: > E-Prime prescribes a version of the English language which excludes all forms of the verb "to be".

You can add "which is" to turn it into a relative clause, but it functions just fine as an apposition.

Regardless of whether the omitted grammatical structure has a name, it's still skirting the intent of E-prime. If inserting the words "which is" has no obvious affect on meaning, then it should probably be a candidate for rephrasing.

Re: E-Prime: English without the verb 'to be'

#124

Post by euyyn »

smilekzs wrote: post #63
chrisseaton wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually the first sentence shows a loop-hole doesn't it? > E-Prime, a prescriptive version of the English language, excludes all forms of the verb to be. Doesn't the part parenthesised in commas have a kind of implicit 'is'? For example E' is supposed to stop me saying things like 'Terminator is a good film and is 2 hours long', but I can say 'Terminator, a good film, lasts for 2 hours'.

Exactly what I thought when I read the article. The proponents wanted to ban a class of semantics but instead chose to ban a relevant but totally different class of syntax . (can't help rewriting to follow the style)

I have trouble imagining how to answer "What's E-Prime; I've never heard of it." without using the semantics of "to be". And answering that seems to me the primary goal of an encyclopedic article.

If the article starts with "E-Prime prescribes..." I still don't know what E-Prime _is_. Is it a committee? Is it a style guide? (Right now the article says it's a version of English, which, if superficially, at least answers the question).

Re: E-Prime: English without the verb 'to be'

#125

Post by mohanmcgeek »

frenchy wrote: post #118
air wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point was that those are forbidden in E-prime, (they have "am" in them).

One could say "I call myself Stephen", but does make it sound like there's something a little weird going on upstairs.

Well, it would sound as if you are literally translating another language. And people may find you weird.

Re: E-Prime: English without the verb 'to be'

#126

Post by yongjik »

Sounds more like a statistical misattribution to me.

1. Many unclear English sentences have "to be".

2. Therefore, let's disallow "to be" to make English clearer.

Well, the obvious alternate explanation is:

3. Since "be" is an extremely common word, for most attribute X, a subset of "English sentences with attribute X" will naturally have many sentences with "to be".

I mean, in what way is "Mars is round" any less clear/objective/interesting than "Mars orbits around the sun"?

Re: E-Prime: English without the verb 'to be'

#127

Post by function_seven »

muraiki wrote: post #121

In High School, my English teacher had us write essays in a format that incorporated E-Prime, but I had no idea that it was actually called "E-Prime". In addition to not using forms of "to be," we followed the SEXI format. This meant that every body paragraph was composed of four parts: Statement, Explanation, eXample, and Interpretation (one web site lists this as Importance). I think that in short essays each SEXI…

> Unlike the article, I didn't try to use either form in my comment. :)

I'll give it a shot. This proved harder than I thought it would, and might read awkwardly. (Especially the "actually called 'E-Prime'" part. I can't think of a way of rewording that that doesn't sound weird.)

---

In High School, my English teacher had us write essays in a format that incorporated these rules, but I had no idea that it had a name: "E-Prime". In addition to not using forms of "to be," we followed the SEXI format. This meant we composed every body paragraph from four parts: Statement, Explanation, eXample, and Interpretation (one web site lists this as Importance). I think that in short essays each SEXI paragraph also couldn't number more than four sentences.

The combination of E-Prime and SEXI created a real challenge to write at first, but with practice I found that it led to really solid papers with greater clarity of thought. It tremendously helped in writing my college senior thesis.

Re: E-Prime: English without the verb 'to be'

#128

Post by saalweachter »

nemoniac wrote: post #99
saalweachter wrote: post #56

I bemoan rather than beatify prescriptionists who bequeath their own bespoke English upon the world, befuddled when the rest of us find it somewhere between befouling and beleaguering rather than bewitching. Belike I belabor the point; I can begrudgingly believe avoiding "to be" might bestow a little clarity, sometimes. But betwixt you and I, in excess it bewilders me.

"betwixt you and me"

More prescriptionism?

Re: E-Prime: English without the verb 'to be'

#130

Post by function_seven »

yongjik wrote: post #126

Sounds more like a statistical misattribution to me. 1. Many unclear English sentences have "to be". 2. Therefore, let's disallow "to be" to make English clearer. Well, the obvious alternate explanation is: 3. Since "be" is an extremely common word, for most attribute X, a subset of "English sentences with attribute X" will naturally have many sentences with "to be". I mean, in what way is "Mars is round" any less cl…

The point of E' is to provide a kind of mental exercise. By forcing yourself to write this way, you discover clearer ways to make your point, or to convey information.

Think of it like the weights baseball players put on their bats during practice. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball_doughnut)

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