So once this becomes law ( and surely it will ) how do these finer points of the law get decided, will it be done by the arbitration panel, ie the high paid lawyers who take turns being plaintiff, defendant, and judge?
TPP banning requirements to transfer or access to source code of software
121–130 of 162 posts
Re: TPP banning requirements to transfer or access to source code of software
#122These are rules for States. It has no bearing whatsoever on the GPL. This prevents a country from forcing somebody like Microsoft or Apple to give up their source code for "inspection" in order to access their market. It also helps to prevent States from demanding and acquiring encryption or other private keys (there's a separate section that also explicitly forbids mandating backdoors be added). Not everything in th…
So, as an actual lawyer i actually think i disagree with you in practice. Imagine for a second that the US gets tough on GPL violators, and says "well, if you want to sell android devices in the US, you have to produce the GPL source code". Or something even simpler, along the lines of "products marketed in the US must comply with all licensing obligations of software that it contains". This one actually happens behi…
With the right spin, I think it would still be allowed by a State to not allow a software in a market that violates an OSS license. This is because they are blocking software that doesn't have the right to be redistributed because it doesn't complete the requirements to be redistributed. The State isn't requiring the source to be revealed, just that it has the ability to redistribute the software.
To make a poor analogy, imagine that the law said States can't require people to kneel and kiss a pinky ring in order to enter the State. However, they can require a valid passport, even if in Guilder in order to get a passport you have to kneel and kiss the pinky ring of the King of Guilder.
Re: TPP banning requirements to transfer or access to source code of software
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
So, as an actual lawyer i actually think i disagree with you in practice. Imagine for a second that the US gets tough on GPL violators, and says "well, if you want to sell android devices in the US, you have to produce the GPL source code". Or something even simpler, along the lines of "products marketed in the US must comply with all licensing obligations of software that it contains". This one actually happens behi…
"GPL and other open source licenses are arguably not commercially negotiated contracts" This is the key issue. It seems like a copyright license to code under GPL would be commercial, in the sense that the parties are exchanging a license for the recipient undertaking the GPL obligations. Whether it's "negotiated" seems like a more difficult question. One interpretive guide could be to look to the reason for the prov…
They are contracts of adhesion and by definition are explicitly NOT negotiated contracts. They are 'take it or leave it' much like insurance policies.
Re: TPP banning requirements to transfer or access to source code of software
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
To quote Obama: > The TPP means that America will write the rules of the road in the 21st century. http://in.reuters.com/article/2015/11/05/trade-tpp-idINKCN0S... It very much sounds like they’re treating the rest of the world as colonies.
Not colonies, markets. The connotations of your word choice seem solely intended to make emotional connections that the reality does not support.
Well, ISDS – which, obviously, is a way to give up parts of sovereignty (not necessarily bad) – has some specific exceptions that make it unlikely it can be used against the US, instead mostly against the other partners.
This gradient of power reminds of the colony-empire relationship of one entity having might over another. (though not nearly comparable, I used it as hyperbole)
In a good treaty both the US and any partners – like Japan, Singapore, or New Zealand – would get the exact same rights.
Re: TPP banning requirements to transfer or access to source code of software
#125Earlier quoted context omitted.
So, as an actual lawyer i actually think i disagree with you in practice. Imagine for a second that the US gets tough on GPL violators, and says "well, if you want to sell android devices in the US, you have to produce the GPL source code". Or something even simpler, along the lines of "products marketed in the US must comply with all licensing obligations of software that it contains". This one actually happens behi…
Why would the GPL not be considered a commercially negotiated contract?
It's a Contract of Adhesion. Adhesion contracts are, by definition not negotiated.
Re: TPP banning requirements to transfer or access to source code of software
#126I remember a story that Russian government required MS to deliver their source code of windows to prove there are no backdoors. This will be banned now and no one will ever be allowed to ask for source code to prove it's safe and spyware free.
Re: TPP banning requirements to transfer or access to source code of software
#127These are rules for States. It has no bearing whatsoever on the GPL. This prevents a country from forcing somebody like Microsoft or Apple to give up their source code for "inspection" in order to access their market. It also helps to prevent States from demanding and acquiring encryption or other private keys (there's a separate section that also explicitly forbids mandating backdoors be added). Not everything in th…
>This prevents a country from forcing somebody like Microsoft or Apple to give up their source code for "inspection" in order to access their market. Since when is that a good thing?
Since Microsoft and Apple spend hundreds of millions developing that code. To let a country 'inspect' it is to put valuable intellectual property at risk. Would you trust China to inspect your source code for a project you spent millions developing a unique technology? Should Boeing open source their aircraft wing designs? To suggest such is ludicrous. Do you really want governments with access to everyone's source code?
Re: TPP banning requirements to transfer or access to source code of software
#128TPP is no double political union instead of economical partners.
Re: TPP banning requirements to transfer or access to source code of software
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not colonies, markets. The connotations of your word choice seem solely intended to make emotional connections that the reality does not support.
Well, ISDS – which, obviously, is a way to give up parts of sovereignty (not necessarily bad) – has some specific exceptions that make it unlikely it can be used against the US, instead mostly against the other partners. This gradient of power reminds of the colony-empire relationship of one entity having might over another. (though not nearly comparable, I used it as hyperbole) In a good treaty both the US and any p…
Honest curiosity: which exceptions make it hard to use the ISDS against the US government?
Re: TPP banning requirements to transfer or access to source code of software
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
Expounding further - what government agency has the time or money to actually sift through mountains of source code? From a pure financial standpoint, there's no possible way that it isn't cheaper to just measure real emissions than attempt some kind of software analysis for every version of every vehicle on the market. Furthermore, an agency inspecting source code has absolutely no way to tell whether or not that th…
Just as a counterpoint: the Nevada Gaming Commission has plenty of time and money to sift through the source code of every gaming device that gets deployed in NV.
If I write the software for those devices in ASM, do/can they still look through it?
Is there some kind of formal engineering practice they require manufacturers to adhere to?
How are their staff qualified to read the vast variety of languages out there?
I cite these as immediate, obvious roadblocks to verification, regulation, because they're easy and many PLs are something that the vast majority of the software industry are not used to.