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El Capitan and Homebrew

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Re: El Capitan and Homebrew

#121

Post by mickronome »

quotemstr wrote: post #61

Users should have full control over their own machines. System Integrity Protection is obnoxious paternalism at best, and at worst, it's just another step toward iOS-ification. If Apple keeps this up, I expect a revival of Linux desktop distributions.

A couple of year ago I made a prediction that Apple is going to try to throw out OSX long term. While I thought it would proceed at a greater pace, gradually locking down things because of "security" can easily have double utility. I hope I'm wrong, I like my OSX machines ...

Re: El Capitan and Homebrew

#122

Post by tvon »

alex1 wrote: post #17

I'm curious to know if there's a reason everyone installs Homebrew in /usr/local (other than it being the default installation path). I've always chosen to install it in ~/.homebrew and haven't had any problems. Everything I install with Homebrew seems to handle an alternative prefix without issue.

Homebrew is great, but using /usr/local as the default install location just a bad idea.

Re: El Capitan and Homebrew

#126

Post by eggie »

massysett wrote: post #90
quotemstr wrote: post #61

Users should have full control over their own machines. System Integrity Protection is obnoxious paternalism at best, and at worst, it's just another step toward iOS-ification. If Apple keeps this up, I expect a revival of Linux desktop distributions.

I think SIP gives me more control over my machine, not less. I don't want programs installing junk into my system directories. Don't mess with what my distributor shipped me. I've had this same complaint on Linux and OS X for years: to install system wide, you are typically asked to become root, and then some random installer has free reign to wreak absolute havoc. It turns out Haskell Platform was installing symlink…

It's an unusual linux installer these days that requires root. Programs aren't going to write junk into your system directories on linux unless you give them permission to. I'm not sure how adding an additional layer of complexity on top of this will solve anything. Now, rather than asking for root, your random installer would be asking you to open up SIP permissions for it.

Re: El Capitan and Homebrew

#127

Post by sneak »

_b8r0 wrote: post #86

To be fair, homebrew shouldn't need to change perms, it should follow common unix standards or at least fit in with OSX rather than require a hack. For years I've felt homebrew should really use either /opt/ or ~/.homebrew/ by default.

"Fit in with OSX" is why I put it in ~/Library/Homebrew/. Obvs.

Re: El Capitan and Homebrew

#128

Post by eggie »

omegote wrote: post #101

Shit like this happens everyday and yet many regard OS X as the best development platform. Wtf?

You could have a stable free environment that will work for a decade or a proprietary one that's designed to cause older computers to break and require expensive upgrades. For various reasons many people love the latter.

I also don't mind having excuses to upgrade my hardware but I dislike being driven forward by planned obsolescence, which is basically how every piece of Apple hardware I've ever owned has ended its life. Exploding batteries. Horrible one-way OS upgrades. I thought it'd be helpful for art and music software, but I found the opposite. I thought it'd be good for programming but had to invest absurd amounts of time in installing basic open source development software. Never again.

Re: El Capitan and Homebrew

#129

Post by sneak »

Osmium wrote: post #85
quotemstr wrote: post #61

Users should have full control over their own machines. System Integrity Protection is obnoxious paternalism at best, and at worst, it's just another step toward iOS-ification. If Apple keeps this up, I expect a revival of Linux desktop distributions.

> Users should have full control over their own machines. Agreed. > System Integrity Protection is obnoxious paternalism at best Couldn't disagree more. The user maintains full control: you can disable it at will, temporarily or permanently. Protections like this are becoming essential as a result of current malware threats. Thanks to System Integrity Protection, we're now much more protected against rootkits and sim…

Many of the "I want full and complete control of my system at all times!" people mostly just mean "I want to continue doing it the way I have done it for the last fifteen years and will resist any change to that traditional method on principle".

See also: Android

Re: El Capitan and Homebrew

#130

Post by School-Cotton »

Osmium wrote: post #85
quotemstr wrote: post #61

Users should have full control over their own machines. System Integrity Protection is obnoxious paternalism at best, and at worst, it's just another step toward iOS-ification. If Apple keeps this up, I expect a revival of Linux desktop distributions.

> Users should have full control over their own machines. Agreed. > System Integrity Protection is obnoxious paternalism at best Couldn't disagree more. The user maintains full control: you can disable it at will, temporarily or permanently. Protections like this are becoming essential as a result of current malware threats. Thanks to System Integrity Protection, we're now much more protected against rootkits and sim…

Well, if we somehow knew for sure that you'll always be able to disable it, sure, this feature is fine.

But Apple can't be trusted -- they sell two very popular lines of computers (iPhones and iPads) that are completely locked down. It's not unreasonable to be worried that they'll try to move towards locking down their other lines also. Not to mention that they're a remarkably developer-hostile company and probably wouldn't care much about the outcry it would raise from the HN crowd.

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