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MSBuild is going cross-platform with .NET Core

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Re: MSBuild is going cross-platform with .NET Core

#121

Post by brusch64 »

BetaCygni wrote: post #117
fiatjaf wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who does not like MS because of the $ cannot at the same time like Java.

It's not a question of $ or of liking MS, it is a question of trust. Microsoft can and will suddenly discontinue entire solutions like Silverlight. I know of a company that is in real trouble because they first rewrote their entire application in Silverlight and now have to do it again in HTML5... Java on the desktop is almost dead due to the horrible JRE by Oracle. On the server and on Android it is alive and well,…

@Silverlight: are you much better off if you've wrote a Java Applet at the same time ? (I think this was the right thing to do in Java back then)

We were trying to use Java Webstart, but we gave up, because of the fact that some modern browsers just block the Java plugin.

I have to use a Java applet for some customer VPN's I am connecting to and the only browser this works for me is Internet Explorer to connect to those VPNs.

You can still write Winforms applications and this is some really old technique. Maybe you are still able to use MFC, but I haven't tested that in a LONG time.

Re: MSBuild is going cross-platform with .NET Core

#122

Post by retrogradeorbit »

romanovcode wrote: post #60
beastway wrote: post #55

Why would I want to deal with MS on any other platform? I want nothing to do with that company out of principal and I hope we can do a equally harmful shut out of MS in the future, they deserve their own medicine. No, into the trash it goes.

>Why would I want to deal with MS on any other platform? Because C# is a great language.

Sure. But when you are looking cross platform there are much better languages than C#.

Re: MSBuild is going cross-platform with .NET Core

#123

Post by brusch64 »

shoo wrote: post #118
ZenoArrow wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "And who knows, maybe someone will build a decent MSBuild replacement. Or perhaps the Xamarin guys already have a nice alternative." You might want to check out FAKE, it essentially lets you write MSBuild configurations using F#: http://fsharp.github.io/FAKE/ This recent announcement means that a multi-platform FAKE in the near future looks like a good bet.

I used fake in anger. I wouldn't recommend using it compared to more mature alternatives for serious projects. It seemed strictly worse than using NANT & invoking msbuild. Yes, xml is horrible, but NANT is mature. Both tools don't understand file dependencies. From that perspective they are inferior to make.

Funny - I've used exactly the same thing NANT & msbuild. Couldn't get my solution to build just with NANT.

Re: MSBuild is going cross-platform with .NET Core

#124

Post by retrogradeorbit »

rjbwork wrote: post #93
beastway wrote: post #55

Why would I want to deal with MS on any other platform? I want nothing to do with that company out of principal and I hope we can do a equally harmful shut out of MS in the future, they deserve their own medicine. No, into the trash it goes.

You can't win if you're not going to reward companies for good behavior.

But on the other hand, how many times are you going to put your hand on the stove and get burnt before you learn?

Re: MSBuild is going cross-platform with .NET Core

#125

Post by BetaCygni »

brusch64 wrote: post #121
BetaCygni wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a question of $ or of liking MS, it is a question of trust. Microsoft can and will suddenly discontinue entire solutions like Silverlight. I know of a company that is in real trouble because they first rewrote their entire application in Silverlight and now have to do it again in HTML5... Java on the desktop is almost dead due to the horrible JRE by Oracle. On the server and on Android it is alive and well,…

@Silverlight: are you much better off if you've wrote a Java Applet at the same time ? (I think this was the right thing to do in Java back then) We were trying to use Java Webstart, but we gave up, because of the fact that some modern browsers just block the Java plugin. I have to use a Java applet for some customer VPN's I am connecting to and the only browser this works for me is Internet Explorer to connect to th…

That's true, but at least Java applets died a natural death instead of being axed.

I checked the history of Silverlight and the first version was released in 2007. jQuery was released in 2006 so Silverlight was a classic case of "too little, too late".

Real Java applications run well nowadays, so much so that you don't notice it's Java (except that you always have to give them more memory...)

And yes, you can still use MFC ;)

Re: MSBuild is going cross-platform with .NET Core

#126

Post by txdv »

BetaCygni wrote: post #117
fiatjaf wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who does not like MS because of the $ cannot at the same time like Java.

It's not a question of $ or of liking MS, it is a question of trust. Microsoft can and will suddenly discontinue entire solutions like Silverlight. I know of a company that is in real trouble because they first rewrote their entire application in Silverlight and now have to do it again in HTML5... Java on the desktop is almost dead due to the horrible JRE by Oracle. On the server and on Android it is alive and well,…

suddenly? are you serious? it was dead from the beginning.

that is like saying, o my god, i think the rotting corpse that has been lying in here for 3 months is dead!

Re: MSBuild is going cross-platform with .NET Core

#127

Post by BetaCygni »

txdv wrote: post #126
BetaCygni wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a question of $ or of liking MS, it is a question of trust. Microsoft can and will suddenly discontinue entire solutions like Silverlight. I know of a company that is in real trouble because they first rewrote their entire application in Silverlight and now have to do it again in HTML5... Java on the desktop is almost dead due to the horrible JRE by Oracle. On the server and on Android it is alive and well,…

suddenly? are you serious? it was dead from the beginning. that is like saying, o my god, i think the rotting corpse that has been lying in here for 3 months is dead!

I am serious. I didn't concern myself with it a lot, but popularity seemed actually rising (to my annoyance).

Re: MSBuild is going cross-platform with .NET Core

#129

Post by rjbwork »

retrogradeorbit wrote: post #122
romanovcode wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why would I want to deal with MS on any other platform? Because C# is a great language.

Sure. But when you are looking cross platform there are much better languages than C#.

IMO, not with anything approaching the install base/jobs/tooling/etc. of C#, and you get the ability to practically use F# when appropriate.

Also, how many big "enterprise" shops are doing interop between a C-Style language and an ML-style language? Probably not many, and almost certainly more are doing it with C#/F# than anything else.

Re: MSBuild is going cross-platform with .NET Core

#130

Post by h_r »

manigandham wrote: post #96
edwinnathaniel wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Will hard-core Linux users who used Java migrate when it makes sense? Probably only for mobile/desktop app but less likely for back-end/webservice/infrastructure stuff. Take MSBuild. This is pretty much Ant. Sure, there's NuGet but Ant+Ivy or MSBuild+NuGet combo isn't anywhere close to Maven (despite the XML hate). Libraries, communities, tools, frameworks of .NET ecosystem is still behind Java. Unfortunately langu…

Can you/someone give a quick rundown of why maven is really so much better than everything else?

Adding to all the good points that others mentioned, this sort of consistency only grows in importance in large companies where developers support many different projects. It allows you to focus on the business problems rather than spend time getting used to dozens of variations in the build themselves.

We had this problem with Ant many years ago. Everyone did their builds differently and half of them were subtly broken.

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