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The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

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Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#121

Post by jokoon »

Well the "sanctity" of marriage argument is something I don't really value, so of course there is an opportunity to make money if you get information like that. I just pity their clients, that's all I can really think about this story.

I really wonder what most people would side with, the hackers, who want to unmask infidelity, or Ashley Madison and their clients, who might not deserve to be blackmailed. In a trial of Ashley Madison versus the hackers, I wonder who would prevail, because honestly I don't like neither, and I wonder if a court of justice would really protect people who engaged in infidelity.

Again, the information age is really challenging our morals.

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#122

Post by acqq »

dang wrote: post #16
tedunangst wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are never the infidels. Only "they" can be infidels.

Is there a word for things that only other people can be? The one that always comes to mind is "tourist".

Unbelievers. Only others can be the ones not believing what you believe at the given moment (you can of course believe the opposite later, but you just "changed your mind" or something). Religions use that word to proclaim or even demand that something bad should happen to the others.

Interestingly, some people discussing the leak show emotional and "religiously righteous" response to the people who possibly made or even just considered an act of "infidelity" (not to be confused with the "infidels.")

Infidel: "Late 15th century: from French infidèle or Latin infidelis, from in- 'not' + fidelis 'faithful' (from fides 'faith', related to fidere 'to trust'). The word originally denoted a person of a religion other than one's own, specifically a Muslim (to a Christian), a Christian (to a Muslim), or a Gentile (to a Jew)."

C.f. Barbarian, 2: "2. Hist. a. One not a Greek. b. One living outside the pale of the Roman empire and its civilization, applied especially to the northern nations that overthrew them. c. One outside the pale of Christian civilization. d. With the Italians of the Renascence: One of a nation outside of Italy."

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#123

Post by zamalek »

camillomiller wrote: post #111
dsacco wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a great comment, Thomas. I had an argument with my girlfriend about this. No matter what reasoning I used, no matter what I said, she could not agree that it was wrong that Ashley Madison (A.M.) was hacked. Her position was that marital infidelity is such a pubishable offense that the participants on A.M. deserve to be publicly outed. In her view, it was not even up for debate. She felt so powerfully about in…

The elevation of monogamy and closed relationships as the God-given natural status of a couple is the source of too many problems. Same for not living our own sexuality in the open. By acting like this (that is: like you are supposed to) you are constantly prone to blackmail. If you happen to have a wife that is entitled in her social-induced belief that even thinking about other women is good ground for the terminat…

> God-given natural status

The "God reasoning" isn't the only reasoning. Just like polygamy is a choice, so is monogamy. It's a sexual choice.

What is wrong is that people can't be open about that choice. People should be able to be open and honest about being polygamous or monogamous with their partner - yes, that might sometimes result in the relationship ending; but there's a good chance where there is a disagreement it would have ended with heartbreak further down the line anyway. This should occur long before marriage is ever on the table, or even, before a relationship is on the table.

In Africa it's important for people to know their AIDS status and be honest about it; I wish we could do the same thing with relationship preferences.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to have only one partner, there is also nothing wrong with wanting to have many partners. Both approaches to relationships have their pros and cons.

Either way, debate about polygamy vs. monogamy in this case-scenario is completely irrelevant. Someone was hacked, privacy was violated (it doesn't matter what privacy) and that is the end of that. There's no reason to attach another argument to the discussion because the hack was an outright violation in the first place.

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#124

Post by masklinn »

daemin wrote: post #8
tptacek wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's like, you know who has a stronger opinion about wrongdoing than people who dislike infidelity? The people who picket abortion clinics. Also: there's a neat parallel to the NSA here, in that a substantial portion of the users registered for A.M. probably haven't been unfaithful, and are getting "dragnetted" up with the people who have, because who's going to take the time to sort that out?

Was there ever any requirement that one be in a relationship to join the site? I'm sure more than a few would have joined, while pretending to be in one, and subsequently have started a relationship.

> Was there ever any requirement that one be in a relationship to join the site?

No, it's only marketed/targeted towards that demo.

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#125

Post by varjag »

dsacco wrote: post #4
tptacek wrote: post #2

The response to this this on Twitter would be beyond fucked- up if it weren't so completely predictable. People are posting direct links to the dump, screenshots of lists of emails, and statistics for classes of domains. The general reaction to the availability of the dump is reasonably characterized as "glee". But no matter what you think about Ashley Madison --- and I think A.M. is so comically scummy that I had tr…

This is a great comment, Thomas. I had an argument with my girlfriend about this. No matter what reasoning I used, no matter what I said, she could not agree that it was wrong that Ashley Madison (A.M.) was hacked. Her position was that marital infidelity is such a pubishable offense that the participants on A.M. deserve to be publicly outed. In her view, it was not even up for debate. She felt so powerfully about in…

Speaking of NSA, do you think Snowden's revelations were unethical or misguided?

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#126

Post by dogweather »

> I May Get Stoned to Death for Gay Sex (Gay Man from Saudi Arabia Who Used Ashley Madison for Hookups)

> A bunch of people are accusing me of lying because 'AM is only for married people.' AM is actually about "discreet hookups," and hence its main appeal is to married people, since premarital sex isn't stigmatized in the West. But it also appeals to gays from regressive cultures, and their website has an option specifically for gays, as you can figure out if you do 5 minutes of research.

https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/3ebzzj/i_may_get_ston...

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#127

Post by aaronbrethorst »

A_COMPUTER wrote: post #13
tptacek wrote: post #2

The response to this this on Twitter would be beyond fucked- up if it weren't so completely predictable. People are posting direct links to the dump, screenshots of lists of emails, and statistics for classes of domains. The general reaction to the availability of the dump is reasonably characterized as "glee". But no matter what you think about Ashley Madison --- and I think A.M. is so comically scummy that I had tr…

This is pretty close to the same as Donald Sterling's opinion on black people, and outed gay Republicans who voted against gay equality. Even if the outing was unethical, you can't un-pull the trigger on this being public knowledge, and people become responsible for their own shitty behavior that previously was concealed. Sucks to be them. And marital infidelity is unethical even if it isn't illegal. It's pretty FUCK…

It is only the same if each and every AM user has taken a vocal stand against having an affair. Otherwise it is nothing like Sterling or every gay Republican legislator or preacher who has ever been forcibly dragged out of the closet.

I'm disappointed HN has a blanket ban against Gawker links, as the Geithner story there from a few weeks ago has some very important lessons for this story.

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#128

Post by dgfv1 »

tptacek wrote: post #2

The response to this this on Twitter would be beyond fucked- up if it weren't so completely predictable. People are posting direct links to the dump, screenshots of lists of emails, and statistics for classes of domains. The general reaction to the availability of the dump is reasonably characterized as "glee". But no matter what you think about Ashley Madison --- and I think A.M. is so comically scummy that I had tr…

I'm obviously a dick because I already sent automated messages to relatives of people in the hack indicating to them that they were potentially cheated on.

Personally I would want to know so I share that information.

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#129

Post by dogweather »

in3d wrote: post #93

I'm not sure if people realize how significant this hack is. We just might have seen the first public hack that will cause people to die or be physically hurt. Homosexuality is illegal in certain countries (like Saudi Arabia) and this hack might expose people to harm in these countries. Some reactions of spouses might also be violent. It looks like the reaction of most commenters is very different compared to when Ga…

> We just might have seen the first public hack that will cause people to die or be physically hurt. Homosexuality is illegal in certain countries (like Saudi Arabia) and this hack might expose people to harm in these countries.

This is exactly what is playing out:

> I was single, but used it because I am gay; gay sex is punishable by death in my home country so I wanted to keep my hookups extremely discreet. I only used AM to hook up with single guys. . .

https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/3ebzzj/i_may_get_ston...

Re: The Ashley Madison Database Was Leaked

#130

Post by dagw »

duncan_bayne wrote: post #40
duncan_bayne wrote: post #37

There's something poetic about people who use an Internet based service to commit adultery being exposed by crackers. With luck the fallout will break Ashley Madison too.

Repost from a different, and now I think abandoned, thread: I'm curious - I keep getting downvoted whenever I criticise Ashley Madison on the grounds of morality. Why is this? This isn't a whinge about downvoting (if I didn't want to get downvoted I wouldn't keep posting about A-M), but a genuine inquiry into the reasons. Is it that people see discussions of morality as off-topic for HN? Do people disagree with my mo…

To me the relative morality of A-M and the people using it seem somewhat irrelevant to the larger discussion. It's always fun to gloat when bad things happen to 'bad' people, but even people who live a lifestyle you strongly disagree with should have access to the same basic rights as you wish to have, including the right to privacy.
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