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Tech industry's persistent claim of worker shortage may be phony

latimes.com

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Re: Tech industry's persistent claim of worker shortage may be phony

#111

Post by codeonfire »

rewqfdsa wrote: post #51
ForHackernews wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Compensation north of $250k-$500k is becoming standard in some areas for such developers. Do you have any more data on this? What skills in which areas are routinely worth north of $250k?

> What skills in which areas are routinely worth north of $250k? Anecdotally, it's not a specific skill, but a talent for solving problems using any tools and skills necessary. The 10x developer is real, and he's not afraid to read a damn textbook or go to the library and study CS papers if that's what it takes to do the job.

Yes, but everybody thinks they are a 10x developer and everyone else is shit. Big companies know exactly how to take advantage of these dummies. "What you're not done yet, I thought you were a 10x developer. Better get it working this weekend."

Re: Tech industry's persistent claim of worker shortage may be phony

#112

Post by sliverstorm »

1971genocide wrote: post #95

The more I read articles like this the more I hate america. america wants to be global hegemonic power without paying the price for it. america only has 5% of the world's population and deserves only 5% of the world's GDP, and should limit itself to absorbing only 5% of world's resource. American multinationals who also control america's govt want to absorb the best of the world's labour and force wage suppression on…

I'm not clear how a country can deserve a fixed portion of global GDP, no more, no less. It's not a zero-sum game, and how exactly do you apportion productivity?

And FWIW, in GDP per capita, the US is only #10.

Re: Tech industry's persistent claim of worker shortage may be phony

#113

Post by gkoberger »

MortenK wrote: post #107
gkoberger wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My comment was more glib than a real complaint about how hiring is going for us. No good developer spends time on Angellist; it has to be proactive. That being said, we do get dozens of inbound applications every week from dev bootcampers who find us through Hacker News job postings/Angellist/etc. (For any developers looking to work at a cool startup, shameless plug: http://readme.io/careers/ )

Why would you even post job listings and ask people to apply, if you think no good developers apply for jobs?

I guess I meant that no good developer is out looking for a job on something like Angellist or Hired.com. And plus, it never hurts to be a bit optimistic, I suppose.

Re: Tech industry's persistent claim of worker shortage may be phony

#114

Post by codeonfire »

nevdka wrote: post #100

Not all tech companies are the same. Google needs engineers with skills that most tech workers don't have. You might have a CS degree from a great school and 15 years experience with J2EE, but you're not experienced with say... reactJS. If Google (or Facebook, or startup that just raised $25M) is looking to hire a team of reactJS devs, then they can very quickly exhaust the supply of locals who have used it. From Goo…

Hiring for specific skills in my mind is the mark of a inexperienced company, manager, or department. Usually people think their choice in technology is prescient and amazing. Anyone that doesn't know that specific technology must be a dullard who will never be able to 'get it.' Right now huge numbers of new people are flooding the industry and their stature as managers or "seniors" in the company after one or two years is far above their experience level. More seasoned managers know not to hire for specific skills like "reactJS" as usually those magic technologies turn out to actually be very basic.

Re: Tech industry's persistent claim of worker shortage may be phony

#115

Post by [deleted] »

nevdka wrote: post #100

Not all tech companies are the same. Google needs engineers with skills that most tech workers don't have. You might have a CS degree from a great school and 15 years experience with J2EE, but you're not experienced with say... reactJS. If Google (or Facebook, or startup that just raised $25M) is looking to hire a team of reactJS devs, then they can very quickly exhaust the supply of locals who have used it. From Goo…

[deleted]

Re: Tech industry's persistent claim of worker shortage may be phony

#116

Post by jschwartzi »

DGAP wrote: post #83

In this thread there's a lot of complaining about mediocre developers. I'm still finishing my undergrad, and looking to go the PM route, but how do I avoid being the type of developer complained about here?

Just act like you give a crap about the future of what you're building more so than meeting deadlines and other engineers will enjoy working with you. People have different ways of measuring this, so watch other team members to see what they value in code, and try to make sure you include those features.

You don't have to put out clever or insightful code, only code that is succinct and readable and can be maintained by the existing team.

Re: Tech industry's persistent claim of worker shortage may be phony

#117

Post by SomeCallMeTim »

DGAP wrote: post #83

In this thread there's a lot of complaining about mediocre developers. I'm still finishing my undergrad, and looking to go the PM route, but how do I avoid being the type of developer complained about here?

Do you have a passion for developing software? Do you read Hacker News to find out about the latest technologies? ;) Do you spend time trying to improve your own skills?

If you answered yes to all three, you're probably not going to be a mediocre developer. No guarantees; there's a bit of genetic luck involved. But if you do care enough, you can almost certainly get above the "commodity developer" level.

Re: Tech industry's persistent claim of worker shortage may be phony

#118

Post by Bahamut »

mahyarm wrote: post #99
ams6110 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They need to consider moving outside the valley, if a developer with 3 months experience can get 130K. They can come to the midwest USA and get devs with 10 years experience for well under six figures.

They cannot get 130k, they just think they can get 130k. They won't pass the interviews, or even the recruiters most of the time.

And yet a lot of Bay Area startups (some even YC companies that popup here) think they can get away with offering top notch developers in their field $130k & poor equity.

The outrageousness cuts both ways.

Re: Tech industry's persistent claim of worker shortage may be phony

#119

Post by Asbostos »

1971genocide wrote: post #82
rewqfdsa wrote: post #42

I've always viewed these persistent and ridiculous claims of a tech-industry worker shortage through a lens of class. To a Harvard MBA, that we programmers earn six figures is prima facie evidence of a worker shortage, since there's no way that ugly nerds should be earning that kind of money for typing into a computer. Programmers are workers, so investors and management should be able to siphon off their productive…

When I was in college, I was doing engineering. Many of my friends got bored and wanted to go MBAs. I almost went that path until I started programming. Ever since then I went from a commodified drone to feeling like a kid. It felt like escaping the capitalist matrix. I almost was seen upon as a hippie. I told my dad that "I have no interest in pursing an MBA, I just want to spend me time in a cave with a terminal an…

Can you explain more how the free market stops existing if you commodify labour? I don't understand that.

Re: Tech industry's persistent claim of worker shortage may be phony

#120

Post by codeonfire »

currentoor wrote: post #64

There is a major flaw in this article. Software developers are not cogs. Just because someone has an engineering degree does not make them just as good as any other developer. Being able to write great software usually comes from passion and practice, not a piece of paper that says "Computer Science BS". Some of the best developers I know didn't even get an engineering degree. Is there a shortage of people with piece…

>Some of the best developers I know didn't even get an engineering degree.

How do you know this is just not confirmation bias on your part. You like to think that degree-less people are somehow vaguely 'better.' You know some developers that don't have a degree. Consequently they must be the best developers you know. I think most would agree that you would need actual double blind research including some way to order developers by ability that made sense. You would also have to have a sufficiently large sample size randomly chosen instead of your biased sample of a few people you know. It stands to reason, though, with no research done that you are just more likely to know more developers without degrees since only 18% of the population have a Bachelors and 7% have a masters.

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