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Dropdowns Should Be the UI of Last Resort

lukew.com

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Re: Dropdowns Should Be the UI of Last Resort

#111

Post by err4nt »

vidarh wrote: post #91
err4nt wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do a lot of responsive design, and I turn zooming off So I CAN give you a proper responsive design that you can read and interact with on a small touchscreen. Why on earth would you prefer to pan around a desktop site designed for a big screen with a tiny cursor when you've got a tiny screen and a massive cursor (fingertip)?

If I try to zoom, it is already a demonstration that your design does not work for me on my device. I would not prefer to pan - if I resort to it, it's because I have to because the site design is broken. At that point you better not have disabled zoom too, if you want me to come back to your site.

> If I try to zoom, it is already a demonstration that your design does not work for me on my device.

THIS! This is how I feel exactly! When you load up a site I do it is as well designed as a mobile app. Surely people don't complain about the inability to zoom in their iOS settings app, or in the clocks app. Why would my site be any different?

Re: Dropdowns Should Be the UI of Last Resort

#112

Post by kalleboo »

minikites wrote: post #51
kalleboo wrote: post #16

This reminds me of one of my pet peeves about the iOS UI - the date picker control. Yes, the scrolly spinners are a very cute UI and look awesome. But it'd be 10x faster if they'd just give me a number pad and let me hit the 8 digits rather than scroll up and down to get it just right.

MM/DD or DD/MM?

iOS knows your locale, and it's easy to put in placeholders as well as a default

Re: Dropdowns Should Be the UI of Last Resort

#113

Post by DanBC »

err4nt wrote: post #109
wlesieutre wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about giving me a proper responsive design, and then still letting me zoom in if your design sucks for me and the text is too small? Not everyone has the same eyesight or the same size phone.

If zooming is better than having a properly designed layout for the device you are using, how did all the app developers get it wrong? Nearly every app on my phone is formatted for a small touchscreen, and not simply a desktop-sized program on a desktop shrunk to fit my phone screen (allowing me to zoom in and push a tiny cursor around). Form follows function, and so an app designed for a mobile device would look dif…

Nothing you list is a justification for disabling zoom. You can do all of that while allowing users to zoom.

Re: Dropdowns Should Be the UI of Last Resort

#114

Post by brudgers »

warbastard wrote: post #74
brudgers wrote: post #45

GUI's embody micromanagement as a virtue. GUI's in general should be a last resort. Computers are supposed to do our work automatically. Barring that, by delegation. Making rounded corners and gradients is easier than making something useful. that's why it gets so much attention. NoGUI.

While I agree with your point that computers should do the most they can to take the work out of things for the user, the flight search example used in the article is exactly the sort of thing that at some point you're likely to need to input. It's a plan that the user has that they want to action. While you could use voice recognition or call a person to do the same, some people are probably going to want to type it…

Look at the last frame, "Title Your Guide". The website/app doesn't provide it's own keyboard wudgut. Why the fuck does it have 3 wudguts to enter a date?

NoGUI.

Re: Dropdowns Should Be the UI of Last Resort

#115

Post by Lewton »

vidarh wrote: post #91
err4nt wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do a lot of responsive design, and I turn zooming off So I CAN give you a proper responsive design that you can read and interact with on a small touchscreen. Why on earth would you prefer to pan around a desktop site designed for a big screen with a tiny cursor when you've got a tiny screen and a massive cursor (fingertip)?

If I try to zoom, it is already a demonstration that your design does not work for me on my device. I would not prefer to pan - if I resort to it, it's because I have to because the site design is broken. At that point you better not have disabled zoom too, if you want me to come back to your site.

> If I try to zoom, it is already a demonstration that your design does not work for me on my device

What? There's plenty of reasons to zoom even if the design is perfect.

Re: Dropdowns Should Be the UI of Last Resort

#116

Post by simoncion »

anc84 wrote: post #76

If you want to see the images in actual 1:1 resolution, here is how: * Click on the image in the text. * Click on the image in the tweet. * Right-click on the image in the pop-up. * Open image in new tab. * Change the "large" at the end of the URL to "orig". Load that URL. Congrats, you now see a huge (blurry upscaled) image that you can actually read. You are out 3 times the network traffic that was needed. Why woul…

shrug I can read the text in the images just fine on my 96dpi laptop screen. I suspect that I'm not the only one. :)

Edit: Hell, they're even easier to read at the same view distance on my 216dpi Gen 1 Nexus 7. I'm using Firefox on the laptop and Mobile Firefox on the tablet.

Re: Dropdowns Should Be the UI of Last Resort

#117

Post by Lewton »

err4nt wrote: post #80
cbaleanu wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely not. Disabling default zoom behavior is like hijacking the scroll bar - bad, ugly and puts users off. Also horrible is the tri state or undeterminate checkbox. All of the above are very trendy pieces of 'css and html codes' commonly found on popular DIY web dev sites. *edit: spelling

I do a lot of responsive design, and I turn zooming off So I CAN give you a proper responsive design that you can read and interact with on a small touchscreen. Why on earth would you prefer to pan around a desktop site designed for a big screen with a tiny cursor when you've got a tiny screen and a massive cursor (fingertip)?

Consider your post score an informal poll....

Re: Dropdowns Should Be the UI of Last Resort

#118

Post by err4nt »

DanBC wrote: post #113
err4nt wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If zooming is better than having a properly designed layout for the device you are using, how did all the app developers get it wrong? Nearly every app on my phone is formatted for a small touchscreen, and not simply a desktop-sized program on a desktop shrunk to fit my phone screen (allowing me to zoom in and push a tiny cursor around). Form follows function, and so an app designed for a mobile device would look dif…

Nothing you list is a justification for disabling zoom. You can do all of that while allowing users to zoom.

Nothing in my list was meant to be a justification for disabling zoom. My justifcation for that is: I am a formally trained designer and I design UI properly for the devices and hardware my projects are intended to be accessed with.

The other stuff I mentioned were just other examples of things 'from the frontline' that I do to optionally enhance the site for mobile users with no effect on desktop. I design everything with two very different targets in mind.

Re: Dropdowns Should Be the UI of Last Resort

#119

Post by err4nt »

Lewton wrote: post #115
vidarh wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I try to zoom, it is already a demonstration that your design does not work for me on my device. I would not prefer to pan - if I resort to it, it's because I have to because the site design is broken. At that point you better not have disabled zoom too, if you want me to come back to your site.

> If I try to zoom, it is already a demonstration that your design does not work for me on my device What? There's plenty of reasons to zoom even if the design is perfect.

Are you able to articulate 5 or more of those plentiful reasons?

The reasons I can think you would desire to zoom in on a legible, functional, accessible website would be for curiosity, or to see a detail closer and admire the layout. There are details like this in apps all the time and I screenshot it and zoom in on my screenshot. Those are interests (I want to see that closer) that are separate concerns from me using the app.

I'm curious what reasons you might give that would interrupt or prevent a person from using the site as intended because of their desire to zoom in without screenshotting.

Re: Dropdowns Should Be the UI of Last Resort

#120

Post by charlesarthur »

justuk wrote: post #104
brazzledazzle wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the case of hover-based UIs is it more about common functionality? You can tap/click on both platforms, so is it easier to develop a single UI? One that uses the capabilities they have in common vs developing a unique interface for each device type?

It feels like desktop is taking a hit for the team because a less sophisticated member is tagging along. I watch all these websites convert over to responsive designs and very few of them are a step forward. It's like they've gone from tools aimed at adults to toys for children.

What's happened is that they've gone to "sites with smaller viewports and less precise input methods because they don't have a mouse and keyboard attached". And in case it had also passed you by, mobile is the predominant method of browsing for a huge number of sites all over the world.

Consider Google, which says that mobile search outnumbers desktop in 10 major countries. Do you hear Larry Page moaning about how people are using the "wrong" method to access the site? Nope. Instead, Google rejigged its algorithm to favour "mobile-friendly" sites. So let's see, that ranges you, preferring desktop, against Google, monitoring the direction of travel. Think I'd bet with the latter.

You can bemoan the way that mobile input has to adapt. Or you can revel in the way that smart UX designers figure the best way to adapt, as outlined in the original post. I know which I prefer.

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