Reddit Chief Engineer Quits After Less Than Two Months on the Job • Hacker News Board

Re: Reddit Chief Engineer Quits After Less Than Two Months on the Job

#111

Post by eco » Tue, Jul 14, 2015, 5:15 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #97

eco wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only person claiming Alexis was responsible for firing Victoria was Yishan who hasn't worked there for 8 months and he based that on the fact that Alexis is Ellen's boss so he's ultimately responsible. Former employee kickme44 pointed out that Alexis actually reported to Ellen, despite his role, and Yishan then back peddles on his claims somewhat. The fact of the matter is that we just don't know how or why Victo…

No. Long before Yishan's post, Ohanian posted on Reddit saying he both owned the reorg of AMAs and flubbed the transition with Victoria Taylor. It's not speculation. Consider also that by Ohanian's own direct words, the chairman of Reddit had an operational role over one of the most visible parts of the site. Pao was in a situation that would have been difficult to manage even if things had been going smoothly.

Have a link handy? I can't find it. My memory was he's said a lot of things like "we messed up" and "we could have handled it better". Nothing that says he personally is responsible.

Re: Reddit Chief Engineer Quits After Less Than Two Months on the Job

#112

Post by kedean » Tue, Jul 14, 2015, 5:17 PM UTC

smrtinsert wrote: post #96

tvon wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that I disagree, but it's worth mentioning (for anyone who doesn't frequent reddit) that firing Victoria was apparently Alexis Ohanian's decision, and not Pao's[1][2], which suggests that the pressure is coming from the board and not an endeavor specific to Pao. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/3d6asv/former_r... [2] https://www.reddit.com/r/TheoryOfReddit/comments/3d2hv3/kn0t...

I find it extremely rare that the board is not involved directly in every hiring/firing for startups under some sort of business duress. Total tangent: I did not understand the outrage at reddit. The management clearly let her be thrown under the bus by the conspiracy wackos.

I don't know if reddit can still be called a startup. It's a decade old content aggregator business. That's like calling Facebook a startup in social media.

Re: Reddit Chief Engineer Quits After Less Than Two Months on the Job

#113

Post by jasonlotito » Tue, Jul 14, 2015, 5:18 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #97

eco wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only person claiming Alexis was responsible for firing Victoria was Yishan who hasn't worked there for 8 months and he based that on the fact that Alexis is Ellen's boss so he's ultimately responsible. Former employee kickme44 pointed out that Alexis actually reported to Ellen, despite his role, and Yishan then back peddles on his claims somewhat. The fact of the matter is that we just don't know how or why Victo…

No. Long before Yishan's post, Ohanian posted on Reddit saying he both owned the reorg of AMAs and flubbed the transition with Victoria Taylor. It's not speculation. Consider also that by Ohanian's own direct words, the chairman of Reddit had an operational role over one of the most visible parts of the site. Pao was in a situation that would have been difficult to manage even if things had been going smoothly.

> No. Long before Yishan's post, Ohanian posted on Reddit saying he both owned the reorg of AMAs and flubbed the transition with Victoria Taylor. It's not speculation.

That doesn't dispute the fact that Ellen was CEO and Ohanian's boss. He might have been responsible for the reorg, but as CEO, Ellen was ultimately responsible. Unless you think the CEO had no power.

Re: Reddit Chief Engineer Quits After Less Than Two Months on the Job

#114

Post by jasonlotito » Tue, Jul 14, 2015, 5:21 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #42

amyjess wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pao is the only one of the three who left for any reason that might be gender-related, though. And, yeah, the harassment of Pao was very misogynistic -- and racist to boot (people were calling her a "ching chong cunt") -- but there's nothing to indicate that the other two had any problems due to their gender.

I like the idea that the CEO can resign in a hailstorm of racist and misogynist vitriol but that subsequent departures won't have anything to do with gender.

Do you have a reason to claim that Bethanye is lying?

Re: Reddit Chief Engineer Quits After Less Than Two Months on the Job

#115

Post by malandrew » Tue, Jul 14, 2015, 5:21 PM UTC

smrtinsert wrote: post #87

malandrew wrote: post #72

"The company is growing, and we have the opportunity to improve in many areas — including the number of women in leadership positions. I am confident in our ability to recruit women at the executive level, as we have made a point to do so at Hipmunk, where more than half of the executives are women." I don't know about anyone else, but comments like that make a company less desirable as a place to work because factor…

How is it toxic if representation doesn't even equal general populace? Men are clearly getting in no problem. This isn't a case of over correction, it's about seeing if they can look past historical biases towards men and be more open towards hiring for the future. The study you linked describes current faculty expressing a desire to bring it towards a balance. I'm not sure where the toxicity is created.

"more than half of the executives are women" === over-correction

Would it be okay for a company to only hire women as executives since women are a minority of the executives in this industry? Technically that isn't over-correction using your definition.

    "The study you linked describes current faculty expressing 
    a desire to bring it towards a balance."

So if you've got XY chromosomes and you're finishing your post-graduate degree who is a solid candidate for a position in academia and that is where you want to work, then you're getting screwed right now through absolutely no fault of your own just because you happen to have XY chromosomes. That candidate is paying for the failures of past generations. Do you think that is fair?

Re: Reddit Chief Engineer Quits After Less Than Two Months on the Job

#116

Post by dcole2929 » Tue, Jul 14, 2015, 5:24 PM UTC

dimino wrote: post #85

protomyth wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do wonder if Victoria could do a website that is essentially all AmAs? Basically it would be another interview show with a bit of a twist.

Probably has a non-compete, among other things.

Most likely not. It's actually fairly difficult to enforce a non compete clause in California, to the point that most don't even bother trying. And besides anything useful in this case, would be way too broad to stand up in court anyway. It couldn't be anything preventing her from working at another internet, or media company and even, a clause about refraining from using the AMA format might not stand up either.

Re: Reddit Chief Engineer Quits After Less Than Two Months on the Job

#117

Post by WalterSear » Tue, Jul 14, 2015, 5:24 PM UTC

Cacti wrote: post #47

mrgoldenbrown wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have no basis on which to attack her character. Circumstances have changed significantly since she started. Why is your first assumption that she's weak? Victoria was fired for standing up for users. Maybe Bethanye was being put in a similar position and wanted to leave on her own terms rather than compromise her ideals.

He now, I'm not attacking her character, and I'm not calling her weak. What I'm saying is that there is no possible way anyone in that position, in that span of time, with all the personnel changes going on, could possibly understand the problem well enough both in technical terms and in terms of the management and resources and budget, to come to a reasonable conclusion that it's just impossible. Now, perhaps there…

IMHO, a couple of months is plenty of time to survey a codebase and a company's political landscape.

Re: Reddit Chief Engineer Quits After Less Than Two Months on the Job

#118

Post by tptacek » Tue, Jul 14, 2015, 5:24 PM UTC

jasonlotito wrote: post #113

tptacek wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Long before Yishan's post, Ohanian posted on Reddit saying he both owned the reorg of AMAs and flubbed the transition with Victoria Taylor. It's not speculation. Consider also that by Ohanian's own direct words, the chairman of Reddit had an operational role over one of the most visible parts of the site. Pao was in a situation that would have been difficult to manage even if things had been going smoothly.

> No. Long before Yishan's post, Ohanian posted on Reddit saying he both owned the reorg of AMAs and flubbed the transition with Victoria Taylor. It's not speculation. That doesn't dispute the fact that Ellen was CEO and Ohanian's boss. He might have been responsible for the reorg, but as CEO, Ellen was ultimately responsible. Unless you think the CEO had no power.

No, you have this backwards. Ohanian was Pao's boss.

That's why it's so weird he took an operational role in the company.

Re: Reddit Chief Engineer Quits After Less Than Two Months on the Job

#119

Post by disantlor » Tue, Jul 14, 2015, 5:25 PM UTC

malandrew wrote: post #109

disantlor wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are so many subtle factors working against non-white-men that it's impossible to be totally aware of them all. Making a point of correcting (even if it's somewhat of an over-correction) is not a perfect solution but realistically its better than pretending there isn't an issue, or saying your for equality as if that's all it takes. You'd vote to remove Steve because he said one are to improve is in having more…

It's not longer more. His "making a point" has already exceeded 50% by his own admission. That's over-correction and he doesn't see a problem in that? I'm in favor of people who try to achieve equality. When you adopt a policy that results in over-correction and don't steer back to a position of equality, then the side effects are indistinguishable from the disease it was meant to cure.

Are the effects really indistinguishable? Ok maybe you have a slightly smaller chance of getting a job at Reddit. At least you can take comfort in the knowledge that in almost any conceivable institution or situation you're doing doing pretty well.

I'm assuming your a white man (like myself) but please correct me if I'm wrong. Point is: we've had a good run. If a few extra women get hired at Reddit, we're still doing pretty good in the balance.

Re: Reddit Chief Engineer Quits After Less Than Two Months on the Job

#120

Post by jazzyk » Tue, Jul 14, 2015, 5:26 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #97

eco wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only person claiming Alexis was responsible for firing Victoria was Yishan who hasn't worked there for 8 months and he based that on the fact that Alexis is Ellen's boss so he's ultimately responsible. Former employee kickme44 pointed out that Alexis actually reported to Ellen, despite his role, and Yishan then back peddles on his claims somewhat. The fact of the matter is that we just don't know how or why Victo…

No. Long before Yishan's post, Ohanian posted on Reddit saying he both owned the reorg of AMAs and flubbed the transition with Victoria Taylor. It's not speculation. Consider also that by Ohanian's own direct words, the chairman of Reddit had an operational role over one of the most visible parts of the site. Pao was in a situation that would have been difficult to manage even if things had been going smoothly.

When Victoria was fired, the _perception_ was (possibly incorrect, as we know now) that it was Pao's decision. Not unreasonably, since most personnel decisions below the CEO are made by the CEO. So the original premise still stands.