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Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

#111

Post by lsaferite »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #102
mcphage wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I personally found Bethesda getting any split quite distasteful. They produced the game and made their money on game sales. They produced the game engine, and are letting people develop on it for free. And them getting a cut from people piggybacking on their work and making money from it was distasteful to you?

'Piggyback' is a loaded word. Its something we all do when we use a compiler or desktop machine. Yet those folks don't stick their hands into our revenue stream.

LOL, exactly.

Hell, why don't musical instrument makers get a share of royalties for music made with their instruments?

Re: Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

#112

Post by belorn »

stupidcar wrote: post #13
gkwelding wrote: post #2

I think Valve/Steam (and Bethesda) really screwed up on this one. Although the idea of modders being fairly compensated for their work is a great idea the execution was poor at best. Only 25% going to the content creators? Really? And a poor returns mechanism, getting a refund gets you banned from the steam store for 7 days to stop abuse. That's a poor returns policy when you're buying things like mods that might be…

I agree with everything you said, but it seemed like a lot of the more nuanced feedback on this was drowned out by a subset of gamers having a screaming tantrum at the suggestion of paying anything for a mod, regardless of where the money was going. I'm hopeful that Valve will eventually try this again on a new game with a fairer compensation structure and a better community infrastructure in place. I'm not so hopefu…

I wonder what kind of infrastructure could fix this. Imagine a official phone store where anyone could upload a app, and no platform API that dictate what the software can do.

In the case that a phone got bricked, can the store owner just shrug it off? If malware was injected, who is to blame? When something suddenly breaks because conflicting apps, is that the customers fault? Does it matter if the app was sold 14 days ago, 30 days ago, 1 year?

It would make for a nice reading for a solution to this problem that would handle all of this, while retaining fully compatibility with consumer laws and customers trust in the market.

Re: Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

#113

Post by mcphage »

Vaskivo wrote: post #64

I gathered my thoughts in a comment on the Bethesda blog post: http://www.bethblog.com/2015/04/27/why-were-trying-paid-skyr... TL,DR: Bethesda doesn't deserve the 45% of the sale, specially when they are charging 60$ for the game. IMO, they deserve 0%, for they have created nothing (and were already paid for the game/tools). And mods had value to the game, and increase it's lifetime. Two problems with paid mods: 1 -…

> IMO, they deserve 0%, for they have created nothing (and were already paid for the game/tools).

Except, for, you know. Skyrim. A game engine and toolset attractive enough that people want to build in it so badly, they're willing to do it even though there wasn't a way for them to get paid for their efforts. Maybe you've got higher standards, but that's more than I get when I pay $60 for most games. Of course, I only paid $7.50 for it, but.

Re: Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

#114

Post by lsaferite »

Lawtonfogle wrote: post #96
lsaferite wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as the idea of paid mods pissed me off, I 100% agree with this. Anyone who was getting upset over the 25% to the modder was just using it as an argument point and not serious. If they were serious then they would have come to the same conclusion you did and realized 25% of something is better, monetarily, than 100% of nothing.

That doesn't hold up. The argument that Y% of X is better than 100% of 0 for 100 > Y > 0 doesn't seem to hold up if we set Y to be really low, say .01%. Thus we accept that at some point, a certain percent of some amount of money is a 'slap in the face' compared to it being free and based on donations. That some people think that is at 25 instead of .01 does not mean they have a hidden agenda.

I'd say the person who can rightfully make that argument is the person choosing to sell or not sell their content.

Re: Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

#115

Post by adam12 »

cma wrote: post #71
michaelt wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At first they tried to give passionate content providers a way to also make some money. Given that the "passionate content providers" only make 25% of what users pay, I think that's a very generous interpretation. Edit: It doesn't matter if it's Valve or Bethesda or the tooth fairy that takes the remaining 75% - the fact is this system does little to accomplish the goal of "giving passionate content providers a way t…

If you make a Mickey Mouse sequel using derivative assets, how much of a cut would Disney want? Keeping in mind the assets would be open to competing high-caliber studios (back to the Skyrim example, just allowing for free modding generally precludes competing triple-A's from producing anything, but give them say a "fair" 75% cut of expansions or complete sequels to a competitor's bockbuster game, taking advantage of…

75% should go to the modders. If people are buying the mod, then the mod developer deserves most of the cash for the mod purchase. Remember, the player needs to buy the original game too. Those funds don't go to the mod developer.

Re: Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

#116

Post by pearle »

castell wrote: post #66
gkwelding wrote: post #2

I think Valve/Steam (and Bethesda) really screwed up on this one. Although the idea of modders being fairly compensated for their work is a great idea the execution was poor at best. Only 25% going to the content creators? Really? And a poor returns mechanism, getting a refund gets you banned from the steam store for 7 days to stop abuse. That's a poor returns policy when you're buying things like mods that might be…

Bethesda introduced DLCs to the PC gaming world in 2006: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Elder_Scrolls_IV:_Oblivion#... The first update came as a set of specialized armor for Oblivion‍ '​s ridable horses; released on April 3, 2006. Although gamers generally displayed enthusiasm for the concept of micropayments for downloadable in-game content, many expressed their dissatisfaction at the price they had to pay for th…

Bioware was doing DLC before it was called DLC and long before Bethesda.

Google Neverwinter Nights premium modules.

Re: Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

#117

Post by emodendroket »

kedean wrote: post #80
ux-app wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't been paying extra close attention to the whole fiasco, but there's something that I don't understand. Are people really more in favor of modders getting 100% of $0 rather than 25% of $X? Is there more to this debate that I'm missing?

The core of the issue came down to the effects on the modder community. 1. Modders are hobbyists, not professionals. Many modders came right out and said they would no longer make mods under this system, because the pressure to charge means it becomes a job. They no longer would have the option to just walk away from the mod. 2. Piracy. Modders have explicitly made their mods available for free. Once you have a syste…

Why would making it possible to make money from them make it impossible not to charge for them?

Re: Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

#118

Post by gibsonje »

michaelt wrote: post #36
erikb wrote: post #32

Let's not underestimate what Valve has done here. At first they tried to give passionate content providers a way to also make some money. That's a huge thing. Most modders can tell you about it. Then they screwed up, which can happen if you try something the first time. I think it's okay, but I understand why people are pissed. Then the boss himself comes and talks to people on reddit to see what is going on. He gets…

At first they tried to give passionate content providers a way to also make some money. Given that the "passionate content providers" only make 25% of what users pay, I think that's a very generous interpretation. Edit: It doesn't matter if it's Valve or Bethesda or the tooth fairy that takes the remaining 75% - the fact is this system does little to accomplish the goal of "giving passionate content providers a way t…

This little subtopic can't be summed up in a sentence. Valve didn't set the 25% number, and that's the important part. Bethesda opted to take over 40%.

Re: Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

#119

Post by Nemcue »

Vaskivo wrote: post #64

I gathered my thoughts in a comment on the Bethesda blog post: http://www.bethblog.com/2015/04/27/why-were-trying-paid-skyr... TL,DR: Bethesda doesn't deserve the 45% of the sale, specially when they are charging 60$ for the game. IMO, they deserve 0%, for they have created nothing (and were already paid for the game/tools). And mods had value to the game, and increase it's lifetime. Two problems with paid mods: 1 -…

> Does Unity get a cut from Unity developed games?

That is not unheard of. Afaik the free version of the Unreal engine has a royalty system. It's kind of the same thing with the Source 2 engine, except instead of paying royalty you promise to only publish on Steam.

Re: Valve shuts down paid mod system after pressure from gamers

#120

Post by obsurveyor »

pekk wrote: post #44
dijit wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but 25% goes to creators, 45% to bethesda and valves standard 30% fee for transactions? 25% is awfully low, honestly.

What is the correct number they should have used, and how did you arrive at that number?

15/15/70 Valve/Creator/Mod Creator

15% to Valve for merchant fees(this is already crazy high compared to the credit card processors and other payment processor's fees). They shouldn't get the full 30% they charge for game publishing since they already offer Steam Workshop for free and mods don't have the same visibility as games in the store.

15% to the game creator for on-going royalty fees for re-purposing of assets/technology. They would also receive final say in what mods are or are not allowed in Workshop, paid or free. They retain ownership of their original creation and any use or derivation of it.

70% to mod creator.

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