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Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

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Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#111
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Open offices lets me be around my colleagues and inspires me to focus on my work and get access to help promptly when I need it. " Actually any co-location scheme allows this, walls or no walls. It's a matter of culture, not of vertical dividers. But I concur, it's a bit over the top to say that "everyone" hates open offices since clearly some people don't. Personally, to me it feels like a quarter suffers, of which…

The "quarter that thinks its OK" is something of an understatement. Some of that quarter are self-employed people who still think it's so much better for their productivity to be around other people that they're prepared to pay money and sacrifice an hour commuting in order to sit at a desk in a big, trendily-decorated room with an assortment of other entirely-unrelated microbuses-owners rather than a desk in their o…

"...to sit at a desk in a big, trendily-decorated room..."

I think that sounds more like a team room and not an open office. Team rooms are awesome.

I value spontaneous human interaction very much. I just don't value being aware of the spontaneous human interaction between 40 different people around me.

The key to understanding why open offices suck is that the amount of disturbance - statistically - is relative to the number of conversations that can spontaneously happen.

If we take n people then the number of spontaneous interactions is (back of the envelope) k * n * (n - 1) where k is some scaling factor.

It looks like this: https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&e...

The point is, the more people there are, the more disturbances there are - exponentially. It's totally different to work in a space with 10 people than with 20 people - in the latter there is a 4 times more likelihood there is a disturbance than with 10 people. If we compare a room with 4 people with 40 people then the room with 40 people have relatively 130 times more disturbing events despite there are only 10 times as people around.

This is of course a ridiculously simple model but I think it essentially captures the fact that very large rooms have different dynamics than just large rooms.

And I want that people communicate and ask things spontaneously! But I don't appreciate the fact that without walls people like me need to suffer from noises coming from four different teams. And I don't mean suffer in an aesthetic sense, but in a very gut wrenching, unhealthy, "I cannot concentrate on this algorithm and it pisses me off like no other thing in this earth" way.

"...they get bored and demotivated when the office is quiet."

Do you mean you get bored and demotivated or are you describing how someone else feels specifically about their job?

Could it be rather that their job is just not that meaningful to them? If that is the case then I would hold that as a point against open offices - give people tiny meaningless jobs and remove all the walls so they are peer pressured to perform. I'm obviously exaggerating here to make a point.

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that a new development? I thought open-plan study halls were common in universities and libraries. http://www.flickr.com/photos/proimos/5914733818/

But in a library silence is expected; not conference calls, chat and collaboration.

Fair enough; I work in an open plan office, but conference calls and meetings are held in separate rooms.

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#113
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Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#114
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Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#116
post #74
post #22

I think this has been a discussion going on for a long time now. What I believe to be true is it really depends on the person. If you're someone who is self-conscious then yes you'll feel like everyone is judging you all the time. If you have the ability to stay focused on your work without being around colleagues then you should be allowed to work from home. I've worked in open offices, offices with high partitions…

I think you're much more self aware about how you solve problems than i am. Most problems are just exploring a configuration space. Stuff like using a hashtable instead of a set, because there's extra associated information, or traversing a datastructure in a different order. Perhaps complex, but ultimately understandable changes. Sometimes though, the impossible happens. Maybe a race condition or something. In those…

That is part of my problem. When I get into those modes I want to pace and talk to myself as I go through the problem. Sharing space really puts a crimp in that.

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#117
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I find cubicles to be the worst of both worlds: too spread out for much collaboration with neighbors, but open enough go have nearly all the noise and distraction of an open office.

Can you explain what collaborative benefits an open office plan brings when trying to concentrate on fixing code? Currently I work in a place with 66" high walls and I find that true collaboration happens regardless of the wall height, via instant messaging, email and walking into someone's cube. I've worked in places with low cube walls and I've absolutely hated it - I felt so uncomfortable I couldn't wait to leave…

I work on a rather large system: it is not uncommon that when when a couple of people are talking (out loud, not digitally) about a problem, another co-worker, who wrote or otherwise has much more experience with the module we are discussing, joins the discussion and adds insight.

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#118
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain what collaborative benefits an open office plan brings when trying to concentrate on fixing code? Currently I work in a place with 66" high walls and I find that true collaboration happens regardless of the wall height, via instant messaging, email and walking into someone's cube. I've worked in places with low cube walls and I've absolutely hated it - I felt so uncomfortable I couldn't wait to leave…

I work on a rather large system: it is not uncommon that when when a couple of people are talking (out loud, not digitally) about a problem, another co-worker, who wrote or otherwise has much more experience with the module we are discussing, joins the discussion and adds insight.

P.S. I find that there are three levels of noise: library-like silence, individual conversations and coffee-shop blur of conversation.

In my experience with cubicles, the middle-level of noise was most common. Since there was often only one conversation happening in the office, it could be heard by many people and it was hard for me to tune out. (Sometimes people would be in their own offices but on the same conference call, so the only noise would be that one conversation in stereo!)

However in the open-office, we often end up with enough noise to be at a coffee-shop level of noise which is easier to tune out. (My preference being Library > Coffee Shop > 1 conversation)

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#119
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Being an adult. Really, do you require a baby sitter to keep you busy? Please don't be personally rude on HN.

You're being overly sensitive, that wasn't rude.

This borders on a personal attack. Don't do this.

Re: Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying the workplace

#120
The biggest bias in the discussion that occurs on HN, is that most people commenting are engineers. Programming is inherently heads down, whereas a large number of professional jobs are not.

If you want to run a sales team, open office is almost mandatory. The energy you hear from others closing deals causes you to become energized, creating a compounding effect. An ops/customer success team needs to be open office so that agents can quickly exchange off the cuff conversations with each other in real time.

The point is, there are different office layouts that work for different types of people & workers.

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