Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The volume is too damn high on flights

blog.42floors.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 180 posts

Re: The volume is too damn high on flights

#111

Post by rottyguy »

toothbrush wrote: post #98
rottyguy wrote: post #27

I've always wondered why bars crank up the music so high to the extent you're yelling to convey conversation to the person next to you. One of my friends hypothesized that it was done to focus patrons on drinking and not chatter, but socializing is a big part of the bar scene... Anyone know?

I recently saw this pop by in the news: http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/addiction/news/20080718/l... -- the bottom line is either what you suggest, or that loud music intrinsically motivates drinking. The authors don't know.

Thanks. I get the feeling that loud music + yelling = increase in adrenaline = drinking more. I also like the privacy angle and perhaps stressed out vocal cords = more soothing drink. I figured it had to be "sales" related since socially, it made no sense (also bias the fact that I am old :-)

Re: The volume is too damn high on flights

#112

Post by kissickas »

userbinator wrote: post #30
pngat2x wrote: post #9

OSHA probably wouldn't have much to say… The peak he measured would only be outside of their guidelines if the attendants screamed for the entire LAS-SFO flight and then he hopped on a plane and immediately flew back with the same treatment. Table G-16 - Permissible Noise Exposures https://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_tab...

NIOSH says 15 minutes at 100dB, which is still far longer than the combined duration of all announcements on a flight. http://www.sengpielaudio.com/PermissibleExposureTime.htm I think the 99dB value the author of the article measured is not arbitrary - and was chosen specifically to meet some regulations.

That depends on the flight. I've timed the announcements on some medium-length flights totaling upwards of 30 minutes.

Re: The volume is too damn high on flights

#113

Post by logfromblammo »

seany wrote: post #105
logfromblammo wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would guess that they use more expensive hearing protection systems with an active electronic system to pass through sounds at a comfortable level, attenuate louder and potentially damaging noises, and possibly even amplify quiet sounds. The technology would be similar to that used in hearing aids and noise-cancelling headphones. But it is also probably an order of magnitude or two more expensive just because the p…

You can get a basic set of electronic ear pro for ~$70 ( http://amzn.com/B007BGSI5U ), there are even cheaper options with a lower NRR.

Those look a bit bulky for use by police or military in the field. You would need to miniaturize down to an in-ear version. Then you need to add very generous padding in your procurement contract.

If an over-the-ear tech is available for civilians for $70, I would guess that an in-ear police/military version is $850, with an upsell option to integrate with your existing radio communications system for only $1150 per pair. I'd also call it "active hearing protection system" and never, ever refer to them as "earplugs".

That's comparable with a good hearing aid, only because the health insurance payments system is superficially similar to government procurement contracting with respect to profiteering middlemen.

Again, this is only a guess, made without supporting data by someone who owns a foil hat.

Re: The volume is too damn high on flights

#114

Post by specialist »

lfam wrote: post #96

This is a pet peeve of mine that I developed while doing video production in the live event industry. Unfortunately almost nobody cares about protecting their hearing. Pretty much everyone in food service in the US exposes themselves to dangerous audio levels throughout their work shifts. My coworkers with SPL meters routinely measured sound pressure levels above 105 dB for hours at a time. But try wearing earplugs a…

As a father and fan of live music:

I get cranky when I see kids without ear protection, especially toddlers and younger, who have no control or way to escape.

I make a point of praising the parents who put ear muffs on their infants.

Re: The volume is too damn high on flights

#115

Post by MichaelGG »

sokoloff wrote: post #110
MichaelGG wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any indication the safety announcements are effective? The fact they dedicate so much time to taking about smoking makes me doubt they are evidence based. United's 787s have a no smoking sign built in to every single seat, at eye level. I suppose it's possible that they fly places that have such a strong smoking culture that this is an important and useful reminder, but that seems doubtful. Which makes me ca…

They are effective in complying with the relevant law: http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/91.519 which specifically requires an oral briefing on "when, where, and under what circumstances smoking is prohibited". Don't fault the airlines for complying with the law.

I'm faulting the actual presentation and behavior, regardless of who is ultimately to blame. If the law requires wasting everyone's time and attention with so much no smoking signs, then it's probable it wastes effort on other things, too.

Re: The volume is too damn high on flights

#116

Post by leephillips »

omegant wrote: post #94
rottyguy wrote: post #27

I've always wondered why bars crank up the music so high to the extent you're yelling to convey conversation to the person next to you. One of my friends hypothesized that it was done to focus patrons on drinking and not chatter, but socializing is a big part of the bar scene... Anyone know?

A very good private party DJ(He plays for artist and actors) told me that if you want people to dance, the volume must be very high. As it was my party I told him to do it as he saw fit and indeed almost all the people (200) danced. Then one neighbour complained and he lowered the volume (just for a while ;) ) and most people stopped dancing almost immediately. When he boosted the volume again, they all jumped to dan…

Glad you didn't let consideration for the rights and comfort of the people who live around you interfere with your need to party as you saw fit.

Re: The volume is too damn high on flights

#117

Post by MichaelGG »

aleh wrote: post #68
MichaelGG wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any indication the safety announcements are effective? The fact they dedicate so much time to taking about smoking makes me doubt they are evidence based. United's 787s have a no smoking sign built in to every single seat, at eye level. I suppose it's possible that they fly places that have such a strong smoking culture that this is an important and useful reminder, but that seems doubtful. Which makes me ca…

Some people are better at noticing visual signs, some react only to what they are being told. Smoking on board is really dangerous, so why to take risks?

Because there's a cost in attention. What's the rate of people just lighting up to smoke on a flight? What about the rate of people tampering with or disabling smoke detectors? Is there reason to believe that in the last, say, 5 years, there's been any case of that warning preventing someone from disabling a smoke detector?

I'm also not convinced that accidental smoking on board is that dangerous. Because if it were, then we'd be far more interested in stopping people from boarding with such equipment. I'm hoping aircraft today are capable of handling a small fire, the kind that might happen anyways, like from batteries exploding.

Same reasoning for using electronics - if they had been that dangerous, any bad person could just ship a box of phones with a wake up alarm set and watch planes crash.

Re: The volume is too damn high on flights

#118

Post by GrinningFool »

dikaiosune wrote: post #82
Alupis wrote: post #56

Few thoughts: > and opened the decibel meter on my iPhone These are notoriously inaccurate. To get accurate decibel readings, the mic must be calibrated to absolute known levels (something your App can't do). The App's are basically just comparing relative sounds (this sound is more prominent than this other one, and therefore must be louder... after establishing some relative baseline). Real decibel measuring equipm…

Probably worth noting that shooting without "ears" can still leave you basically unable to hear anything for a good while depending on the firearm, shooting environment, etc. It's not an instant ear-bleeding rupture but it's still VERY loud and will cause significant hearing loss with little repetition. Side note: I'm always curious how soldiers/SWAT/HRT/etc. are able to hold normal volume conversations. If they're w…

Most of the hearing protection I've used when shooting seemed designed to disrupt the sound wave move than actually reduce it.

You can achieve reasonable short-term protection by holding your hands flat over your ears. It doesn't reduce the subjective volume, but it does [anecdotally] prevent subsequent symptoms that indicate temporary or long-term damage has occurred.

Re: The volume is too damn high on flights

#119

Post by e40 »

Alupis wrote: post #56

Few thoughts: > and opened the decibel meter on my iPhone These are notoriously inaccurate. To get accurate decibel readings, the mic must be calibrated to absolute known levels (something your App can't do). The App's are basically just comparing relative sounds (this sound is more prominent than this other one, and therefore must be louder... after establishing some relative baseline). Real decibel measuring equipm…

The PA system is not there just to provide something to listen to in case you are bored.

Yeah, but there's no reason for the people operating the PA to blast our ears for mundane drivel. I was on a flight last weekend where, because I was right next to a speaker, I had to cover my ears for 5 minutes while the flight attendant droned on about non-emergency stuff. It was so loud it hurt my ears. I already have tinnitus, so I don't need any more hearing loss.

Re: The volume is too damn high on flights

#120

Post by GrinningFool »

leephillips wrote: post #116
omegant wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A very good private party DJ(He plays for artist and actors) told me that if you want people to dance, the volume must be very high. As it was my party I told him to do it as he saw fit and indeed almost all the people (200) danced. Then one neighbour complained and he lowered the volume (just for a while ;) ) and most people stopped dancing almost immediately. When he boosted the volume again, they all jumped to dan…

Glad you didn't let consideration for the rights and comfort of the people who live around you interfere with your need to party as you saw fit.

You had me up until "rights". Consideration (or lack thereof) for their comfort - and just for them as individuals- yes definitely.

For their rights? that's a lot less clear.

Post reply on HN