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Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

dev.windows.com

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Re: Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

#111

Post by zxcvcxz »

watty wrote: post #60
nkuttler wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Seems to me Windows is a perfectly open enough OS to act as a platform for tinkering and learning about computers. Maybe, but Linux just seems more convenient. I mean, can you install gcc, golang, nodejs, python, ruby, ghc, lua (...) on windows with a single command? And all the other tools you might want to use, like editors, databases? And you will never know if they want to do kernel-level coding if they don't h…

I completely disagree. I used Ubuntu for a year and I spent more time fixing things or trying to do things in the OS than I have in all other operating systems combined. My nephew tried to install Ubuntu on his new build and hit brick wall after brick wall trying to install the OS and Minecraft. It simply hasn't gotten easy enough and I'm afraid it's too late now. I don't see a comeback for linux. http://www.google.c…

Well, using your logic, Linux has already surpassed OS X:

http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=linux%2C OS X&cmpt=q&tz=

Anyway, Ubuntu works fine on most laptops. We can safely say it works across more hardware than OS X. We can also buy an Ubuntu certified laptop/desktop and have excellent support.

I wish Windows fan boys would stop pretending as if they never run into issues using Windows. I have to fix my dads computer once a week with windows. Windows 8.1 refused to wake from sleep on a brand new laptop that it came installed on and the wifi kept cutting in and out.

I find my self having a more pleasant experience more and more on Linux and less and less on Windows.

Re: Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

#112

Post by pmelendez »

nkuttler wrote: post #53
nmeofthestate wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Windows seems very much contrary to the goal of the Raspberry Pi: providing a device for children to tinker with and educate themselves" "Windows is closed as ever" Are these kids hacking on the Linux kernel or something? Of course not. They will be using some app/language running on the OS. They don't need access to the OS source to do that. Seems to me Windows is a perfectly open enough OS to act as a platform for…

> Seems to me Windows is a perfectly open enough OS to act as a platform for tinkering and learning about computers. Maybe, but Linux just seems more convenient. I mean, can you install gcc, golang, nodejs, python, ruby, ghc, lua (...) on windows with a single command? And all the other tools you might want to use, like editors, databases? And you will never know if they want to do kernel-level coding if they don't h…

> I mean, can you install gcc, golang, nodejs, python, ruby, ghc, lua (...) on windows with a single command?

If you go the unofficial way you can use chocolatey (https://chocolatey.org/). I am very happy with it ( so does it my 9 years old son)

> And you will never know if they want to do kernel-level coding if they don't have access to the kernel.

That depends on the personal curiosity of each person. In my case I have never have that itch and I have been using Linux since 97 when you had to partition your disk by hand.

Re: Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

#113

Post by zxcvcxz »

nmeofthestate wrote: post #54
microtonal wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are these kids hacking on the Linux kernel or something? Of course not. They will be using some app/language running on the OS. They don't need access to the OS source to do that. I even mentioned libc. There is more to an operating system than a kernel. In fact, this was an important part of my early computer education: when I was 12 (1994) I bought a copy of Slackware Linux because it had a free compiler (even Turb…

For hardcore nerds like yourself there will still be Linux. I don't see it as an ominous development. And for old stick-in-the-mud people who never got into Linux like me, this could make doing stuff with a RPi much easier. (Edit: btw I'm using "hardcore nerd" as a compliment).

How would you use a ras pi with windows installed on it? I'm assuming windows 10 is going to have a decent CLI that you're all going to have to learn and pretty soon all the windows programmers who never had time to learn the Linux command line will have plenty of time to learn the new windows command line.

Re: Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

#114

Post by pjmlp »

microtonal wrote: post #44
nmeofthestate wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Windows seems very much contrary to the goal of the Raspberry Pi: providing a device for children to tinker with and educate themselves" "Windows is closed as ever" Are these kids hacking on the Linux kernel or something? Of course not. They will be using some app/language running on the OS. They don't need access to the OS source to do that. Seems to me Windows is a perfectly open enough OS to act as a platform for…

Are these kids hacking on the Linux kernel or something? Of course not. They will be using some app/language running on the OS. They don't need access to the OS source to do that. I even mentioned libc. There is more to an operating system than a kernel. In fact, this was an important part of my early computer education: when I was 12 (1994) I bought a copy of Slackware Linux because it had a free compiler (even Turb…

When I started with computers in the mid-80's, so open source wasn't an option.

None of the home computers systems was open source.

We had computer magazines, and books to type stuff from.

This is what is important, to have information how a given system works.

I only jumped into GNU/Linux as a cheap way to have UNIX at home.

Re: Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

#115

Post by fnordfnordfnord »

bohol wrote: post #74
throwawayaway wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The cracking scene, demoscene and games industry was almost exclusively built on Windows. A lot of that was just as, if not more, advanced as what a Linux programmer does. I think you mean commodore, or atari. Windows gaming came a long long time afterwards. It is more advanced in some ways but it does not beget OS programmers, like an open source OS does. If OS programmers die out, we're in very deep trouble.

No, while nostalgic, the Commodore and Atari scene were tiny in comparison. Since the mid nineties people have learned graphics programming and reverse engineering primarily on Windows. It's not like OS programming is going away, but it has always been mostly a university thing. And you could say we already are in big trouble. Since the ecosystem for multimedia weren't (and isn't) very good on Linux a lot of qualifie…

>while nostalgic, the Commodore and Atari scene were tiny in comparison.

Not as tiny as the PC industry was at the same moment in history.

>Since the mid nineties people have learned graphics programming and reverse engineering primarily on Windows.

Because Windows won the desktop. Graphics programming and reverse engineering would have been learned on whatever OS was in that role.

Re: Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

#116

Post by rquirk »

microtonal wrote: post #37

I am usually not the one to blow the free software horn (being a staunch believer of non-copyleft licenses such as the Apache License) and the geek in me likes this announcement. I also don't hold a grudge against Windows, I think it is a fine system for most people. However, Windows seems very much contrary to the goal of the Raspberry Pi: providing a device for children to tinker with and educate themselves. Althou…

I agree. This is pretty sad news. The Pi 2 page promotes Windows more than the alternatives, which seems to indicate the foundation has been completely "embraced" in the usual 3-stage process.

It is another reason to not promote the RPi, and recommend other single board computers instead like those found here - https://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/single-board-computers

Sigh. I think I preferred it when Ballmer was in charge and Microsoft seemed clueless :-/

Re: Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

#117

Post by Intermernet »

benn_88 wrote: post #79

Note: Windows 10 on Pi 2 will be an IoT platform, not a desktop OS. You'll develop your app in Visual Studio on a Windows PC and deploy it to the Pi. Raspbian will continue to be the main supported OS. - Ben from Raspberry Pi

Thanks Ben, I've upvoted you as I think this should be at the top of this discussion.

As others have said, it would be worth making this clear on the Raspberry Pi site, even if MS don't make it clear enough (judging by the comments) in their own brief announcement.

Re: Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

#118

Post by fnordfnordfnord »

nkuttler wrote: post #68
watty wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely disagree. I used Ubuntu for a year and I spent more time fixing things or trying to do things in the OS than I have in all other operating systems combined. My nephew tried to install Ubuntu on his new build and hit brick wall after brick wall trying to install the OS and Minecraft. It simply hasn't gotten easy enough and I'm afraid it's too late now. I don't see a comeback for linux. http://www.google.c…

It's unfortunate that you apparently had bad experiences with Ubuntu, but this thread is about development tools, not installing third party games from external sources. Yes, if you want to game, windows seems like a more convenient choice, nobody disputes that.

>Yes, if you want to game, windows seems like a more convenient choice, nobody disputes that.

Gaben is closing that gap for us.

Also, Minecraft runs fine on Linux. If GP poster had trouble, it's probably down to a video driver issue (which aren't unique to Linux, but are arguably more painful), or a new-environment-learning-curve thing.

Re: Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

#119

Post by rey12rey »

slipstream- wrote: post #105
trentnelson wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> http://gate.upm.ro/os/LABs/Windows_OS_Internals_Curriculum_R... Oh my. Aaaaand, mirrored. There's also this, which seems about the same level of should-this-actually-be-publicly-available: https://github.com/njdragonfly/WinNT4

Wait, someone put the (partially-)leaked NT4 src on github of all places? DMCA takedown from MS in 3...2..1...

It's been there since 2011

Re: Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi 2

#120

Post by watty »

higherpurpose wrote: post #89
Filthy_casual wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we stop with this argument? Every time a business makes a business-oriented decision someone will pop out to call them out for being acting for their own benefit, as if it's somehow bad. Like every human exchange, you don't have to be an altruist for your deed to be good. It's alright to do "good" even if it derives some sort of benefit for yourself or your company.

Except this move only really benefits Microsoft. And it's certainly not for the "love of open source".

How? It benefits me as a consumer, I'm excited to put Windows 10 on a Pi. It benefits the RPi foundation (assuming their sales go up).
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