I Owe It All to Community College • Hacker News Board

Re: I Owe It All to Community College

#111

Post by mindcrime » Wed, Jan 14, 2015, 9:15 PM UTC

moskie wrote: post #96

mindcrime wrote: post #9

I have issues with the Obama plan, not because I'm against community colleges, but because I have issues with how this will (probably) be funded (read: taxes). As a libertarian / ancap who believes taxation is theft, I don't support anything involving spending tax dollars, no matter how noble the end. That said, I'm a community college grad myself, three times over. I have an A.G.E. (General Education) from Brunswick…

You're heaping praise onto a system that worked so well for you, yet balk at expanding access to that system to more people. Why? It's really hard for me to view that as anything other than extraordinarily selfish. If the community college you went to was funded by taxes, and taxation theft, then do you view yourself as guilty of being a thief, complicit in that theft? I sure don't think so. The reason being that it…

You're heaping praise onto a system that worked so well for you, yet balk at expanding access to that system to more people.

I'm not "balking at expanding access to that system to more people". I'm suggesting that the way we fund it should be changed.

If the community college you went to was funded by taxes, and taxation theft, then do you view yourself as guilty of being a thief, complicit in that theft?

It would be reasonable argument, but it's also irrelevant because I can't change the past. And my political ideals weren't as well defined when I was 19, as they are now.

Re: I Owe It All to Community College

#112

Post by lifehug » Wed, Jan 14, 2015, 9:17 PM UTC

I got paid to go to community college and now I'm getting my masters at UIUC.

It's called FAFSA, and most of my peers did the same. I'm not sure why we need to make it globally free when those who can't afford it can get paid to go.

Also, the solders mentioned to tug at our hearts strings get school paid for.

Soooo why the need for a hug pay check from congress?

Re: I Owe It All to Community College

#113

Post by benihana » Wed, Jan 14, 2015, 9:18 PM UTC

markdown wrote: post #97

zachberger wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was frequently pushed and challenged by excellent professors who had true passion for their subjects I'm paying $47,336 to go to a private institution and wish this was true. Internal politics and tenure have ensured friends of department chairs have gotten the jobs irregardless of teaching ability, skill, research, knowledge in the subject area..

OT: > irregardless regardless is fine.

so is irregardless.

Can I ask why you take the time to correct someone when it was perfectly clear what the intent of the sentence was?

Re: I Owe It All to Community College

#114

Post by ecdavis » Wed, Jan 14, 2015, 9:18 PM UTC

fatjokes wrote: post #8

elinchrome wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clearly he optimized his brain for arts. Why would he be good at math?

Not the point. It undermines the whole STEM promotion that the US is currently undergoing. You never hear anybody brag about how they no can read gooder, if they're an athlete, butcher, scientist, whatever.

Plenty of otherwise intelligent STEM students and graduates hold the liberal arts in contempt and will take any opportunity to mock arts degrees/students/graduates.

In my experience the prevailing attitude of arts students towards science was that it was arcane, difficult and something reserved only for the smartest and most studious. Many science students, on the other hand, view liberal arts simply as a waste of time.

Neither attitude is particularly helpful.

Re: I Owe It All to Community College

#115

Post by RIMR » Wed, Jan 14, 2015, 9:18 PM UTC

danielweber wrote: post #66

snake_plissken wrote: post #56

The initial proposal from The President costs $60 billion over ten years or $6 billion per year. For some perspective, conservative estimates have put the cost of the war in Iraq at $500 million a day. This proposal would cost 72 days of war. It's difficult to comprehend how our politicians could have any issues supporting such an initiative.

If we just buy everything that is cheaper than the Iraq war, we will very soon be bankrupt.

The Iraq War has cost us ~$6,000,000,000,000 (that's ~$17k per US citizen).

Under Obama's plan, that money could be used to pay for two years of community college for every student willing to do the require work for the next 1000 years!

Of course we shouldn't "buy everything that's cheaper than the Iraq war", but that's not what is being argued. This was just to show a contrast between two ~10-year projects. It doesn't take a lot of work to figure out which investment has a higher return.

Re: I Owe It All to Community College

#116

Post by jordache » Wed, Jan 14, 2015, 9:19 PM UTC

danielweber wrote: post #58

jordache wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

narrow-sighted logic. Diversity is what makes life. If you attach future earning potential qualifier to the free education, then you'll have a disproportionate amount of people attempting fit their square potential into a round hole. Over a long period of time, you loose out the natural diversity that would otherwise exist in the general public - of people each dedicated to skill set they are best match for. Not ever…

Not everything human produces ought to have an economic component. This is great. But then we need to stop talking about "investment" in college education. This is instead "consumption," like taking a ski trip to Aspen. How much should the US pay for people to take ski trips to Aspen? I promise you they'll enjoy it.

Does the study of history have a direct economic impact to communities? In most cases no. I assume you recognize the importance of history for human culture?

So in the context of an environment where we encourage extended education via monetary assistance, we strip away all forms of assistance for the study of history due to some qualifier. Is this wise?

Re: I Owe It All to Community College

#117

Post by ctdonath » Wed, Jan 14, 2015, 9:20 PM UTC

randomnumber53 wrote: post #90

cgore wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're way past bankrupt already. That's what debt is. Zero was a long time ago.

Being in debt just means one owes money. The US government has assets and various investments. Being bankrupt is when you can't pay back your debt, which the US most likely will be able to do.

Going from 50% deficit spending to paying off equivalent of 100% of GDP (which enjoys a 2-5% annual growth) amounts to "won't be able to". We'd have to cut spending by 1/3rd just to stop increasing the debt. We'd have to route all federal revenue to debt for 5 years to pay it off. Ain't happening.

Re: I Owe It All to Community College

#118

Post by nether » Wed, Jan 14, 2015, 9:21 PM UTC

jdhawk wrote: post #80

jesseclay wrote: post #64

Another anecdote on the power of community college: Back in 2009 I enrolled at Community College of San Francisco. I was 19 and had no idea what I wanted to do career wise, so I took broad and rigorous curriculum focused on transferring to UC-Berkeley. The 2 years I spent there were some of the best of my life. I was frequently pushed and challenged by excellent professors who had true passion for their subjects (a f…

Not all community colleges are the same. If you live in close proximity to universities with high academic standards, most of the professors are going to be recent graduates of those programs, or educators picking up extra cash and some experience teaching at CC. BFE Community College will not have the same level of academic excellence.

I've heard some profs at Santa Monica College also teach at USC.

Re: I Owe It All to Community College

#119

Post by copperx » Wed, Jan 14, 2015, 9:22 PM UTC

baddox wrote: post #14

fatjokes wrote: post #3

> classes I dropped after the first hour (astronomy, because it was all math) Yet another cultural figure stating without embarrassment how bad they are at math.

Should Tom Hanks be embarrassed about being bad at math?

Yes. Your question implies that because he's a star actor he should be excused of his faults. Hell, he's not ashamed about being a bad actor!

Re: I Owe It All to Community College

#120

Post by jordache » Wed, Jan 14, 2015, 9:23 PM UTC

enraged_camel wrote: post #79

jordache wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

narrow-sighted logic. Diversity is what makes life. If you attach future earning potential qualifier to the free education, then you'll have a disproportionate amount of people attempting fit their square potential into a round hole. Over a long period of time, you loose out the natural diversity that would otherwise exist in the general public - of people each dedicated to skill set they are best match for. Not ever…

>>Not everything human produces ought to have an economic component. Painters, Poets, Musicians... ? Can you explain why someone needs a college education to become a painter, poet or musician?

To be in an environment with like-minded individuals so one can foster ambition, inspiration, and collaboration.

Your sentiment can be applied to any skillset. The same reason why a college degree is not needed for programmers.. One can learn concepts and languages from books outside of college. However the resources available in a community of like-minded individuals provides great benefit for the study of said topic.