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The Fermi Paradox

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Re: The Fermi Paradox

#111

Post by has2k1 »

Lrigikithumer wrote: post #97
ScottBurson wrote: post #17

How about this possibility: the Great Filter is now! We entered it, perhaps, when we developed sufficient collective nuclear weapons capability to wipe out most or all human life; we won't be out of it until the major threats our civilization poses to the biosphere have been resolved.

A lot of people consider nuclear annihilation a big threat but I'm not too worried about tbh. I mean if you think about it, every major player has got a trigger to end all life at any given point, doesn't it seem reasonable that at some point you invest a lot of money into systems that can safeguard and prevent this type of catastrophe. I know a lot of people may consider the governments dangerous and selfish but the…

Nuclear weapons are hard enough to build that they require a coordination of resources and knowledge, so there is an amount of level headedness among those that build them. A pessimistic view follows that, if some technology in our future is as destructive yet it be simple to build then that is a candidate for a filter. In essence, if it exists then we are just sitting ducks.

Re: The Fermi Paradox

#113

Post by rdc12 »

Would discovering the fossils of some complex species on Mars (or any where else in the solar system) be any worse for getting past the great filter then the discovery of fossils of dinosours on earth. We allready know that mass extinction events on Earth are possible, and should expect them to occur on other planents with life too

Re: The Fermi Paradox

#114

Post by coldtea »

sounds wrote: post #65
coldtea wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But it does not explain why no Type III civilizations (continuing with the assumption that civilizations all quickly go on to become Type III) has risen at all in the past hundreds of millions of years. I find the assumption about Type III at best. It's like expecting Moore's law to go on forever.

Did you omit a word? ("Type III __ at best") I agree that a Type III Civilization is just an assumption of what direction a civilization would advance. The article does mention an alternative (they no longer care about meat space, or something similar). If we do resolve the Fermi Paradox I suspect we'll be able to express the answer simply enough to not need to bring in Type III Civilizations, the anthropic principle…

>Did you omit a word? ("Type III __ at best")

Yeah, "tenuous"! Thanks.

Re: The Fermi Paradox

#115

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

Xcelerate wrote: post #15

I am surprised a more common argument was not mentioned: other life exists but the laws of physics limit our interaction. Maybe there is undiscovered physics like wormholes or time travel, or maybe there isn't and the speed of light really is a fundamental limit that cannot be surpassed. In that case, no matter how advanced another civilization becomes, they still can't violate natural law and are thus unable to reac…

> I am surprised a more common argument was not mentioned: ... maybe the speed of light really is a fundamental limit ... they still can't violate natural law and are thus unable to reach us.

One of the assumptions of the article and of most serious scientific discussion of the topic is that the speed of light really is the fundamental limit that it appears to be. It's not mentioned because it's axiomatic. The only thing in favour of the speed of light not being an absolute limit is that people don't want it to be. And wishful thinking is a very weak argument.

This does not make interstellar travel impossible, just very difficult. It is not feasible for us at this time, but it does not "violate natural law".

Re: The Fermi Paradox

#116

Post by kowdermeister »

We are not even listening hard. SETI covers an incredibly tiny range of possible spectrum and possibilities of intelligent life. Are there any other attempts to find alien communication via data mining?

If I were a galactic artist, I would use pulsars to modulate their signals and create a statue that broadcasts the existence of life.

http://www.technology.org/2013/11/20/extraterrestrial-civili...

Re: The Fermi Paradox

#117

Post by dennisgorelik »

danieltillett wrote: post #74
dennisgorelik wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think that current CO2 concentration levels are important for intelligent life? Slight adjustment in how body works can easily adapt organism to new CO2 levels.

I did explain it in my post, but maybe it was too short. Earth has been kept in the habitable temperature zone over the last 3.5 billion years through falling CO2 levels. Around 3.5 billion years ago the sun provided ~25% less energy than now and the CO2 levels were much higher. This is the green house effect. As the sun got brighter over time the level of CO2 in the atmosphere has fallen. For more on this see the sl…

So some CO2 is needed for plants.

It does not make certain CO2 levels a requirement for intelligent life.

Change in temperature does not necessarily kill intelligent life either.

Re: The Fermi Paradox

#118

Post by kowdermeister »

I'm a bit surprised nobody mentioned AI-s taking over as the Great Filter. I'm sure every technical civilization attempts to do that because it's very tempting to accelerate your intelligence by computation.

I've also read an interesting article that why probably machine life is more abundant than biological: http://www.popularmechanics.com/how-to/blog/robot-universe-d...

Re: The Fermi Paradox

#120

Post by GuiA »

maaku wrote: post #109
joe_the_user wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel there's a language used here to conceal some questionable reasoning; "Why don't we see a civilizations spanning a galaxy? How would that work? No idea but why don't we see it?" We could ask why we don't see Lovecraftian gods or giant life forms that each stars. We don't know how that works either.

We have plenty of ideas for how that would work. Are you familiar with a Dyson sphere? A Type III civilization is just a Dyson sphere around every star in the galaxy.

Yes, never mind that Dyson spheres are hypothetical structures that are likely to be as relevant to energy harvesting as Icarus' wings are to flying humans around.
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