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Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

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Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#111

Post by calbear81 »

soperj wrote: post #75
iandanforth wrote: post #7

I've visited Cuba on a Canadian passport. Aside from the beautiful beaches the thing that struck me most was the desperate poverty of people living in shacks outside the 5 star resorts. While I hesitate to predict that this change will be all for the good, I do believe that the poorest in Cuba will benefit significantly from increased trade.

I felt the same way visiting San Francisco, the abject poverty of the people downtown outside $400 a night hotels is just incredible.

It's because we don't criminalize homelessness as aggressively as other major cities and the homeless population is concentrated near downtown where the SROs and social services are located. Keep in mind that it's generally not simply poverty but mental illness or a history of abuse/violence that separates the homeless here vs. the working poor in the favelas and slums of the third world.

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#112

Post by mcantelon »

xyahoo wrote: post #106

There's more to the Cuban embargo than meets the eye. It is true that the Southern Florida Cuban exile community wields a disproportional amount of influence. Florida is almost equally divided between Democrats and Republicans, and is a big state in terms of electoral votes; so when a sizeable block like the Cuban exiles votes a certain way, it can tip the balance. However, that is not the entire story. If we (US) we…

Relations, of course, aren't based on morality, they're based on strategy. Otherwise the US wouldn't have allies like Saudi Arabia and Uzbekistan.

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#113

Post by flyinghamster »

I get the feeling that the embargo will last until Fidel reaches room temperature.

I do find it interesting that in recent years, Bacardi has been playing up its Cuban heritage. I suspect that they're itching to get back, but that whole issue of returning confiscated property stands in the way. Will Cuba end up with something like the Treuhandanstalt in post-reunification Germany?

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#114

Post by jeltz »

lumberjack wrote: post #37

Since this is HN, does anyone know what the IT sector is like in Cuba? Apparently they have a university dedicated to IT stuff[1] but I don't read Spanish and I couldn't really find any projects/research page on there. The only thing that seems to be portrayed is a Linux distro called Nova.[2] [1] http://www.uci.cu/ [2] http://www.nova.cu/

I know there is a PostgreSQL user group which seems affiliated in some way to that university.

https://postgresql.uci.cu/

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#115

Post by jmr0 »

My parents and I left Cuba when I was a child and proceeded to live in various parts of the world before eventually settling in the US. I would like to go back and visit some relatives there at some point, and as a Cuban-born naturalized American citizen I know it is legal for me to do so even currently, but I was informed that I couldn't actually enter Cuba with only an American passport. The Cuban govt requires that I enter as a Cuban citizen, which means obtaining a Cuban passport that costs $200 to renew every 2 years [0]. I'm sure this is mostly just an easy way of extracting money, but I sure look forward to official diplomatic relations being established and hope some of these requirements change -- I don't feel very comfortable entering Cuba as a Cuban citizen and not knowing where my rights end or begin.

[0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_passport

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#116

Post by mudil »

Florin_Andrei wrote: post #72
themartorana wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the same in India and other countries I've visited. Trade alone won't help. I realize India and Cuba are apples and oranges, but my point is that significant trade doesn't necessarily trickle down to the poorest. That said, I do hope it does help some people in Cuba who have fallen victim to unnecessary stresses caused by the embargo.

> my point is that significant trade doesn't necessarily trickle down to the poorest Nothing trickles down to the poorest, spontaneously, almost anywhere in the world.

That's absolutely not true. People live better across the world today than they lived 50 or even 20 years ago. I read statistics somewhere that people in some obscure African country today (can't recall the name) have a living standards of Finland of 20 years ago.

Think about this: the major health issue nowadays across the world is obesity, not hunger.

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#117

Post by eCa »

hughw wrote: post #30
joezydeco wrote: post #17

The timing seems really clever here. The USA and OPEC flood the market with oil (literally), crashing prices and sending the Ruble into a spiral. Just as Cuba starts to worry about Russian support going forward, the USA swoops in to provide some economic bracing.

Literally?

Webster's:

"Since some people take sense 2 to be the opposite of sense 1, it has been frequently criticized as a misuse. Instead, the use is pure hyperbole intended to gain emphasis, but it often appears in contexts where no additional emphasis is necessary." [1]

[1] http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/literally

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#118

Post by mudil »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #73
mathattack wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you start from such a low base, there is enormous room for growth. The question is what can they export? Cigars? Medical personnel?

> Medical personnel? Cuba actually has an incredible socialized medicine healthcare system, and the US embargo specifically carves out an exception for cancer pharmaceuticals developed and manufactured there. Its not that far fetched that you would see medical tourism take off from Florida with its vast retiree population. If I were in the travel business in Florida, I'd start advertising now to get your name out the…

The greatness of Cuban health care system is an urban myth, just like Jackalope.

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#119

Post by toomuchtodo »

mudil wrote: post #118
toomuchtodo wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Medical personnel? Cuba actually has an incredible socialized medicine healthcare system, and the US embargo specifically carves out an exception for cancer pharmaceuticals developed and manufactured there. Its not that far fetched that you would see medical tourism take off from Florida with its vast retiree population. If I were in the travel business in Florida, I'd start advertising now to get your name out the…

The greatness of Cuban health care system is an urban myth, just like Jackalope.

http://www.wired.com/2010/04/cuban-health-lessons/

"Despite a 50-year trade embargo by the United States and a post-Soviet collapse in international support, the impoverished nation has developed a world-class health care system. Average life expectancy is 77.5 years, compared to 78.1 years in the United States, and infant and child mortality rates match or beat our own. There’s one doctor for every 170 people, more than twice the per-capita U.S. average.

Not everything is perfect in Cuba. There are shortages of medicines, and the best care is reserved for elites. But it’s still a powerful feat. “In Cuba, a little over $300 per person is spent on health care each year. In the U.S., we’re spending over $7,000 per person,” said Drain, co-author of Caring for the World and an essay published April 29 in Science. “They’re able to achieve great health outcomes on a modest budget.”"

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#120

Post by toyg »

johnward wrote: post #45
iandanforth wrote: post #7

I've visited Cuba on a Canadian passport. Aside from the beautiful beaches the thing that struck me most was the desperate poverty of people living in shacks outside the 5 star resorts. While I hesitate to predict that this change will be all for the good, I do believe that the poorest in Cuba will benefit significantly from increased trade.

Other Caribbean countries are like that without embargoes though. The first time I went to the dominican I saw all kinds of shacks made out of whatever they could fine/steal. The second time they built a new highway that avoided this and basically you ran through fields. I was disappointed because I wanted to show my family the real DR.

Caribbean countries are typical areas that lost their economic identity and are now basically overpopulated. The reasons people moved (or rather were dragged) there, are no more; and they would probably do fine if only they could go back to pre-1500 population levels (or thereabout) and just live off tourism. But they can't, so they will keep struggling to find new economic identities.

The Cuban revolution could ignore this for 30 years, because of their ties with the USSR and emphasis on redistribution of existing resources; and then the old problems came back once the USSR crumbled. Now they are trying to build an economic identity around healthcare and education, and without the embargo (which stops technology from entering the country) they might actually succeed in ways that will hopefully inspire other islands.

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