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Gates Foundation to require immediate free access for journal articles

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Re: Gates Foundation to require immediate free access for journal articles

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's surprising, since their math and CS stuff is usually pretty good.

The thing with math (and abstract CS) is that it's generally purely logic. In principal you should be able to write (at least verify) an entire article with no outside references as it is all logical deductions, it's armchair science in that sense (no negative connotations meant). But if you're going to write an article on say quantum computing or confocal microscopy, to name random things, you are going to need outs…

This is for a very narrow definition of maths. Also it's rare that a paper is completely comprehensive. Some proofs are usually defered to other papers.

Re: Gates Foundation to require immediate free access for journal articles

#112
post #107
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"publishers should work for free. plonk" We expect peer reviewers to work for free. We expect the authors of the papers to work for free. But no, we don't expect the publishers to work for free. As p4bl0 wrote, "But there is that actual cost, and then there is the prices demanded by publishers, which looks more like violent theft than it looks like the actual cost." That means p4bl0 think the prices should be reduced…

Just a remark: actually Google Scholar indexes everything that resembles a publication. For instance it indexes PDF linked from the "research" page of my personal website: if you search for "rauzy ARMv7-M" for instance [1] you'll find a preprint paper that is publicly only available on that web page. [1] https://scholar.google.fr/scholar?q=rauzy+ARMv7-M

"resembles a publication" is an interesting concept, though point taken that it indexes more than just articles published in a journal.

One paper I'm thinking of compared implementations of two different algorithms, and showed that for chemical data VF2 was several times faster than the Ullman algorithm for subgraph isomorphism. A couple of years earlier, two of the free software projects in the field did the same analysis, with the same conclusion. Both published their results on their respective blogs/wiki, and changed the internals to use VF2.

These don't resemble a publication in a way that Google Scholar can discern.

It's a bit annoying to me in that the scientific literature is supposed to be "self-correcting", in the sense that I could publish a followup paper highlighting some of the pre-history. But the journal I'm thinking of is an OA journal, with no letters to the editor or similar section. The only way to update the literature is to pay ~$1,000 for a full-sized paper, or convince some other journal (... or arxiv? Hmm...) to publish a correction piece.

Quite annoying.

Re: Gates Foundation to require immediate free access for journal articles

#113
post #82
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's where the remaining problem is. Funding agencies should really stop kneeling in front of publishers and refuse to pay for this, or at least fix themselves a maximum price per publication. Currently publishers ask for $1000 to $5000 in some cases, which is completely insane. I'm not denying the cost of publication. But there is that actual cost, and then there is the prices demanded by publishers, which looks m…

To me, $1000 per article sounds insanely low. PLoS is a non-profit founded for the purpose of publishing open-access journals. They charge between $1350 and $2900, depending on the journal, and only one journal is less than $2200. Another open-access publisher, BMC charges over $1900 for most of its journals. Do you think that PLoS and BMC are very inefficient? Are there _any_ large-scale open-access publishers that…

First I would like to show the fallacy of your reasoning: we're discussing the unreasonableness of the current price of APCs for open access publications, and you are justifying its reasonableness by giving the current prices.

Now I think you are thinking about this the wrong way. Nobody is denying that publication has a cost. But take all the money that universities around the world spend in subscriptions, add all the money that is paid in APCs. With that kind of money you could laaaaargely support many publishing platforms and professional librarians and technicians to manage, improve and maintains articles metadata and the platforms.

The remaining amount of money (which would be most of it in my opinion) could be used to actually fund research and higher education.

But let's be even wilder! Consider that, rather than being owned by a publisher who's main job is making money, each journal is owned by its editorial board (i.e., the scientific committee composed by the researchers who actually do the peer reviewing work for this journal as part of their researcher work (they're not paid for this task in addition to their salaries)). Now with relatively cheap¹ technical platforms (such as arXiv, HAL, revues.org, easychair, sciencesconf, SciELO, …), we would have everything we have now² for almost free. And publishers could act as contractor (and would be in competition against each other for quality and price) when we want professional editing and paper prints of some journal volumes. If in addition to that the papers use free content copyleft licenses such as CC-BY-SA, then when any university choose to spend a little money to get a professional edition of some papers everyone benefits.

¹ These platforms are not that cheap in fact, but they cost nothing compared to the current cumulated spending in subscriptions etc.

² Many publications todays are actually not professionally edited, publishers actually take the camera-ready version of the authors and just put the PDF online. So their job mainly consist in hosting PDFs, yet they get a freaking awful lot of money for that.

Re: Gates Foundation to require immediate free access for journal articles

#114
post #21
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even more insane when you consider that peer reviewers are unpaid.

So is content editing, in many disciplines. I believe copyediting and layout is paid, however.

> I believe copyediting and layout is paid, however.

I've published in Nature Physics, Physical Review Letters, PRA ... and we did 99% of the copyediting and layout (with LaTeX and unpaid, of course). The editor would correct a few typos, modify the layout slightly (1h of work tops) and that was that.

Re: Gates Foundation to require immediate free access for journal articles

#115
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A use doesn't have to fall under all four factors to be "fair". Educational, noncommercial use can certainly be fair use.

That's just one piece to "fair use". In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include: * the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes; * the nature of the copyrighted work; * the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted…

AFAIU the use needn't pass any of the tests.

Fair Use is an affirmative defense. That is: it's not a right to use copyrighted works, but, in the event infringement is alleged, it may be invoked as a defense.

Specifically the language of US statute is "the factors to be considered shall include". Which can be read as also allowing other considerations. Though I don't know offhand of specific legal gloss or caselaw demonstrating otherwise. The Wikipedia article you cite has that specific claim flagged as "citation required" at this time.

Re: Gates Foundation to require immediate free access for journal articles

#116
post #7

Bravo. It would be really neat if the US Government could get on the same bandwagon. Our tax dollars being used to fund research that we can't access is insane.

Little trick: You can access every can't-access article by posting it to http://www.reddit.com/r/scholar and waiting a couple hours for someone with subscription access to go fetch it for you. This is also a deliciously fun debate, because it calls into question our most fundamental assumptions about the idea of "illegal." For example, is Reddit facilitating illegal activity due to that subreddit? Should anything be…

There's also #icanhazpdf on Twitter https://twitter.com/search?q=%23icanhazpdf which performs the same function as the scholar subreddit.

Re: Gates Foundation to require immediate free access for journal articles

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Little trick: You can access every can't-access article by posting it to http://www.reddit.com/r/scholar and waiting a couple hours for someone with subscription access to go fetch it for you. This is also a deliciously fun debate, because it calls into question our most fundamental assumptions about the idea of "illegal." For example, is Reddit facilitating illegal activity due to that subreddit? Should anything be…

This is the single best tip I've read about anything in the past six months[1]. Here's why: In 2012, I graduated from dental school in debt up to my EYEBALLS[2], and look, I can NOT afford the per article fee required for me to form my own opinions on important dental topics like implantology, oral surgery, adhesive bonding, high strength porcelains. I've had to rely on reading literally tens of thousands of forum po…

I worked with a fantastic implantology startup (http://bioimplant.at) up until a few months ago, and it was illuminating to discover just how much of the implant industry is a racket.

Most surprising of all was the casual ignorance of the majority of 'dentists'/'implantologists' on the DentalTown implants forum. I'd certainly never want any of them in the vicinity of my mouth.

As for these institutions trumpeting their devotion to the 'dissemination of new knowledge', get in touch with Dr Pirker at BioImplant, and ask for his point of view on the subject...

Re: Gates Foundation to require immediate free access for journal articles

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Circumventing the fee is in no way fair to the corporation trying to charge the fee, especially when the corporation expressly wants to force each of those people to pay the fee. I can't rip off a book for my personal education. Same with an academic article. No matter how much we wish the world was different, that's how the law is currently set up.

Bad example... people can and do buy books, and let anyone who comes over to their place read them. They even let complete strangers take the books home for a short time, you just have to fill out a form to get a card from them first. The fact that digital copies are rather easier to loan out, and the fact that you don't much care if you get the copy back, shouldn't make /r/scholar illegal. It might, but it shouldn't…

Though in your "fill out a form" example, libraries do often pay much higher fees for works (particularly journals).

Re: Gates Foundation to require immediate free access for journal articles

#119

This got me wondering: What am I missing by not being in the habit of reading research papers? I remember being in college and finding nearly every paper I wanted to reference was behind a paywall, to the point that I lost all interest in even trying to gain access. I'm sure my own laziness plays a role, but I feel like the restricted access trained me to think research papers are for academics and scientists and it'…

I find that the practice of reading any given stream of data without some directed filtering on my own part is relatively low.

But once you do find a specific topic of interest, the ability to go directly to high-grade, quality sources on that topic is hugely useful.

I've been pursuing just such a research project over the past several years, and tools such as /r/scholar and Library Genesis (as well as traditional bookstores and libraries) are phenomenally useful.

The problem I increasingly run into in the online world is that first-order sources -- social media, blogs, and for the most part even news media, are of exceeding poor quality. They fail to cite sources, they're often simply memetic rip-offs, or copy highlights from corporate press releases. I highlighted an instance just today concerning a biomethane bus story out of the UK -- as with many renewable energy stories, it was lacking in specific quantification and contextual information, which I've supplied: https://plus.google.com/u/0/104092656004159577193/posts/ZmMg...

Worth noting as well: the source of the additional information was 1) Wikipedia (for population measures), my own familiarity with human dietary baselines, the International Energy Agency, and a UK government office which posts its data reports online.

The ability to dig into specific academic articles is huge though. I'm also finding a renewed love of books -- there's something about going through a work that someone spent a few years assembling and citing (books lacking indices, bibliographies, and footnotes or end-notes are not worth having).

What's killer now is to be able to read a book, see a point of interest, follow the citation, and then call up the specific paper or report there and then to see what exactly it says. This both hugely increases the information available to the researcher, and reduces the friction of verifying citations. Often you'll find that there are foundational works, otherwise not generally available, which are very useful.

Those published prior to ~1920 are very frequently freely available. Project Gutenberg and The Internet Archive have wide-ranging collections, but there are other organizations which have their own assemblages of works (including, ironically given my own views on the subjects, many free-market fundamentalist and libertarian organizations).

Among my bigger frustrations is actually managing all of this -- tools to bookmark, reference, cite, annotate, call-up, etc., electronic media are greatly wanting.

Re: Gates Foundation to require immediate free access for journal articles

#120
post #7

Bravo. It would be really neat if the US Government could get on the same bandwagon. Our tax dollars being used to fund research that we can't access is insane.

This is a good development.

I'm a little nervous about forceful approaches though. There are outcomes that come from a culture of compliance, and there are outcomes that come from more organic dynamics. I think the latter will usually produce better results.

IE, I would prefer that the scientific community just take publications less seriously if the underlying data in not available similarly to how they would treat publications that are not peer reviewed.

The goal is to improve science. But if the actual publications and researchers are motivated by Gates-compliance or Government-compliance, that could get derailed.

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