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Why Is Google Blocking Inbox on Firefox?

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Re: Why Is Google Blocking Inbox on Firefox?

#111

Post by TeMPOraL »

skywhopper wrote: post #106

Any time you see a comment like "With some more man hours, it seems trivial for Google to get the application to run in Firefox", you know the author either doesn't know what they're talking about or just hasn't thought about it very much. Anyone who's done any serious web-app development in the past decade knows that cross browser compatibility at the bleeding edge (ie, past what the JS frameworks have worked out) c…

I think that most of those comments stem from Google-hating, which is currently a big fashion here. Were it Apple doing it, they'd be lauded for their attention to user experience. Was Inbox a product of a random startup, it'd be praised for good business approach and proper prioritizing of developer time. But it's Google, so it must be some evil plan.

Re: Why Is Google Blocking Inbox on Firefox?

#112

Post by abraham »

Tehnix wrote: post #95
shadowmint wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could have made the effort to make this work on firefox from the start, but someone decided the effort wasnt worth it. The 'would have been bad experience to new users' is a strawman arguement. Solution: dont release product until it works . Firefox is fast enough if you write code with it in mind. ...but hey, who cares about anything except chrome right? If someone visits play.google.com on an ipad and safari c…

>The 'would have been bad experience to new users' is a strawman arguement. Solution: dont release product until it works Not really. And here's a list of arguments why it's okay to focus on one browser (at least at first): 1) It's in beta, so you want to get it right before focusing on making it work everywhere 2) Developing for multiple browsers adds overhead to developers. I imagine they like to utilise some exper…

*experimental Blink features

Re: Why Is Google Blocking Inbox on Firefox?

#113

Post by Touche »

freehunter wrote: post #88
diggan wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks a lot for that information! Will include it in the post when I get a chance. The performance is kind of bad in Firefox but I'm not sure it justifies blocking the entire browser because of that. For a comparison, Google Photos is slow as hell in Firefox, but you could still use it if you want to.

Google blocked Windows Phone from accessing Google Maps in the browser (both the desktop and mobile versions) with the claims that IE was unsupported, even though Google Maps UK worked just fine. Google does have a history of blocking browsers they don't support, no matter how functional it may seem.

Yeah, they seem to use the whitelisting strategy for all of their properties. If something isn't QAed it doesn't get enabled. I suppose at that scale the support cost isn't worth the "let them use it in a degraded way" mantra most of the web community follows.

Re: Why Is Google Blocking Inbox on Firefox?

#114

Post by [deleted] »

skywhopper wrote: post #106

Any time you see a comment like "With some more man hours, it seems trivial for Google to get the application to run in Firefox", you know the author either doesn't know what they're talking about or just hasn't thought about it very much. Anyone who's done any serious web-app development in the past decade knows that cross browser compatibility at the bleeding edge (ie, past what the JS frameworks have worked out) c…

[deleted]

Re: Why Is Google Blocking Inbox on Firefox?

#115

Post by voyou »

cognivore wrote: post #39

There's not really a good reason for Google to make applications they create work outside their own run-time environment - Chrome. Any technical reason they might offer (sparse array performance) is just facetious. They have the technical know-how to solve such problems, but business wise it makes little sense. I use three web browsers for just that reason. Chrome for Google products (YouTube, Gmail, now Inbox, etc.)…

"There's not really a good reason for Google to make applications they create work outside their own run-time environment - Chrome"

Except that the only reason Google built a run time environment in the first place was to encourage people to use their services - that is, the things that collect the data and serve the ads that make them money.

Google has no business reason to block Firefox; quite the opposite, in fact. So it's reasonable to believe them when they say they have a technical reason.

Re: Why Is Google Blocking Inbox on Firefox?

#116

Post by 72deluxe »

freehunter wrote: post #88
diggan wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks a lot for that information! Will include it in the post when I get a chance. The performance is kind of bad in Firefox but I'm not sure it justifies blocking the entire browser because of that. For a comparison, Google Photos is slow as hell in Firefox, but you could still use it if you want to.

Google blocked Windows Phone from accessing Google Maps in the browser (both the desktop and mobile versions) with the claims that IE was unsupported, even though Google Maps UK worked just fine. Google does have a history of blocking browsers they don't support, no matter how functional it may seem.

Were there differences between the IE on mobile and desktop though?

I recall back in the IE5 days that IE on Mac was a significantly different beast than IE on Windows despite being named the same.

Re: Why Is Google Blocking Inbox on Firefox?

#117

Post by ppereira »

skywhopper wrote: post #106

Any time you see a comment like "With some more man hours, it seems trivial for Google to get the application to run in Firefox", you know the author either doesn't know what they're talking about or just hasn't thought about it very much. Anyone who's done any serious web-app development in the past decade knows that cross browser compatibility at the bleeding edge (ie, past what the JS frameworks have worked out) c…

That is a great technical argument, however, the reason this has attracted so much attention is because this product is about email. Email plays such an important role in our modern lives that any announcement hinting that Google is moving towards vendor lock-in for email access is going to attract scrutiny -- regardless of whether it is by innovative features, enhanced performance, or browser lockout.

Re: Why Is Google Blocking Inbox on Firefox?

#118

Post by Touche »

Tehnix wrote: post #95
shadowmint wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could have made the effort to make this work on firefox from the start, but someone decided the effort wasnt worth it. The 'would have been bad experience to new users' is a strawman arguement. Solution: dont release product until it works . Firefox is fast enough if you write code with it in mind. ...but hey, who cares about anything except chrome right? If someone visits play.google.com on an ipad and safari c…

>The 'would have been bad experience to new users' is a strawman arguement. Solution: dont release product until it works Not really. And here's a list of arguments why it's okay to focus on one browser (at least at first): 1) It's in beta, so you want to get it right before focusing on making it work everywhere 2) Developing for multiple browsers adds overhead to developers. I imagine they like to utilise some exper…

My counter is that "fix it later" never comes. Unless business sees browser support affecting the numbers they will not allocate the time to fix it. Some dedicated developers might fix it by working over time but that's essentially free labor. It has to take a strong engineering department to say "we will not ship until it works".

Re: Why Is Google Blocking Inbox on Firefox?

#119

Post by morganvachon »

pistle wrote: post #102
morganvachon wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say on Microsoft's part it was when Ballmer was ousted and Nadella took the reins. Nadella seems to be genuinely open to working with instead of against other companies and open source projects. I think he realized the ship was sinking, and he's doing what he can to save it, throwing out old and dead business practices in the process. I actually like the "new" Microsoft and the direction it's heading, and I'm…

Ballmer was at the helm when this train started rolling. It has taken years to get here. When Hanselman said to Miguel, "We did it." on stage at dev connect, I took that to mean something much larger than open sourcing Core.net. There has been a push from within on open-sourcing and pivoting on their approach to many of their lines of business that has taken so many people so many small battles, that I would sya Saty…

You're right of course, these changes didn't happen with the flip of a switch. It just seems that so much good has happened at/from Microsoft in the relatively short time since Nadella took over, it's almost as if that was the moment the shackles were taken off. Obviously the ground work was laid when Ballmer was still in charge, but it was almost as if he resisted the changes that were coming down the pipe to the very end.

Re: Why Is Google Blocking Inbox on Firefox?

#120

Post by endemic »

Tehnix wrote: post #95
shadowmint wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could have made the effort to make this work on firefox from the start, but someone decided the effort wasnt worth it. The 'would have been bad experience to new users' is a strawman arguement. Solution: dont release product until it works . Firefox is fast enough if you write code with it in mind. ...but hey, who cares about anything except chrome right? If someone visits play.google.com on an ipad and safari c…

>The 'would have been bad experience to new users' is a strawman arguement. Solution: dont release product until it works Not really. And here's a list of arguments why it's okay to focus on one browser (at least at first): 1) It's in beta, so you want to get it right before focusing on making it work everywhere 2) Developing for multiple browsers adds overhead to developers. I imagine they like to utilise some exper…

I'm sure it's different for large projects, but for my own work, if I wait until the app is "finished" (or at least in a workable state) before working on cross-browser compatibility, I hate my life and want to die. YMMV, but I find that working on compatibility from the start is the way to go. That said, if there indeed is a big performance bug in Firefox, that would totally be a valid reason not to support it (for now).
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