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What an Uncensored Letter to M.L.K. Reveals

nytimes.com

111–120 of 215 posts

Re: What an Uncensored Letter to M.L.K. Reveals

#111

This was in the 1960s. Imagine the projects being conceived now for targeting individuals and population subsets to change opinion, mood, etc. using things like social media, targeted communications, etc. The US then and now was totalitarian and authoritarian. Some of you, especially here on hn, may not fall into those mind-sets but it doesn't matter - you've lost - you're barely scraping by, working 60 to 80 hours a…

Fantastic username choice.

Re: What an Uncensored Letter to M.L.K. Reveals

#112
post #56

Something that's always confused me about the world and people as a whole. Why are so many people hell bent on implementing some "moral standard" that everyone needs to follow? Honestly? There's this bizarre projection of the individual and his/her motivations onto every living being that fails to make any logical sense. Is there any psychological premise for why we feel the need to dictate the behavior of others suc…

It's probably not the case here, but the reason I always supposed is that people secretly resent the moral rules they strive to follow, and think, "hey, if I've got to do this, so do you!"

Re: What an Uncensored Letter to M.L.K. Reveals

#113

Eventually we'll know what's in his file: The FBI spied on Martin Luther King Jr. in an unsuccessful effort to prove he had ties to Communist organizations. In 1963, Attorney General Robert Kennedy granted an FBI request to surreptitiously record King and his associates by tapping their phones and placing hidden microphones in their homes, hotel rooms and offices. A 1977 court order sealed transcripts of the surveill…

While he was not a communist, his plans for social justice were very threatening to the establishment

If you read "Where Do We Go from Here: Chaos or Community?" (which he wrote towards the end of his life), he basically says that the Civil Rights movement needs to shift from racial agenda to an agenda of helping the poor. However he never presents an actual plan other than some vague idea of a massive transfer of wealth from the rich to the poor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poor_People%27s_Campaign

I'd go farther to argue that he's not a communist b/c he wasn't really thinking in those terms and he actively tried to avoid the label (that's why he took for ever to stand up against the war in Vietnam)

Re: What an Uncensored Letter to M.L.K. Reveals

#114
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chill out and pick different audience. Most people on HN are not just "scraping by" unless making >$100k first year after college is now called scraping by. I would say overall HN audience benefits much more from current political, economic and financial situation than suffer from it. It's probably not true for reddit so you can find more receptive audience there.

By scraping by, I mean working 60+ hours per week for those wages. Here in Switzerland we work a normal workweek (45 hours) for an average wage 2x that plus a better quality of life. Germany and London pay much less though but experienced developers can get decent wages. Edit: also, when I lived in the u.s. and ma"de significantly more than 100K I still felt like I was scraping by. Taxes in the u.s., especially Calif…

Wouldn't the cost of living and taxes in those countries normalize the incomes a little bit?

Re: What an Uncensored Letter to M.L.K. Reveals

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any system as large and complicated as this one will have failures. Our job is to learn from the past and try to prevent it from happening again in the future.

Yeah, failures that cost hundreds of thousands lives. We're talking about the most weaponized country in the world, and one of the least shy to use its weapons. We are not talking about a movie maker delivering a boring scene who will try to do better in the next movie. We're talking about toppling foreign governments, invading countries, backing or installing dictatures, assassinating people, droning teenagers, deal…

I doubt change is going to come from external pressure or treaties (although those are good things). Change is going to come when a lot more people become aware of just how bad things have been going, and why. All of the atrocities you mentioned have been done to protect and expand the interests of the wealthy, and have been done in as much secrecy as possible.

I have reason to hope that things CAN change and in fact, ARE changing. Look how rapidly gay marriage has gone from an impossibility to soon being the law of the land in an incredibly short amount of time. Pot legalization is happening at the same speed. The next great wave will be atheism. These things are happening because of increased communication and awareness due to our newfound interconnectivity. That is only going to increase.

Soon it will be extremely hard to keep secrets at all, a condition that is essential to these atrocities continuing.

Re: What an Uncensored Letter to M.L.K. Reveals

#116
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you realize that it was Democrats, the "left" in US politics, who were opposed to MLK's message of equality and freedom for all? that the battle for Civil Rights was won thanks to Republicans, against Democrats? that it was Democrats who were the anti-abolitionist party?

Don't know why you're being downvoted. You're absolutely correct. The Democratic and Republican parties had polar opposite platforms from their present ones until the Southern Strategy beginning in the late 1960s.

Its actually a lot more complicated than that. Prior to the Southern Strategy by Republicans exploiting this fact (and, really, for several decades after), the Democratic Party -- especially post-New Deal -- was a weird coalition between left leaning groups and southern conservatives (a result of the fact that the national parties were largely coalitions of state parties, and stretching back to the Civil War the Republican Party was the establishment party of the North and the Democratic Party the establishment party of the South, which sort of resulted in the opposite party often being the anti-establishment party in other regions if it existed at all -- and its worth noting that lots of states were effectively one-party states even moreso than is the case anywhere today.)

OTOH, the Southern Strategy was a direct result of Republicans realizing that Democrats were vulnerable in the South because the Democratic Party as a whole was no longer voting in line with Southern conservatives.

Re: What an Uncensored Letter to M.L.K. Reveals

#117
Do we have a guess as to why they wanted him dead? Was it that those in power believed the rise of African American citizens would disrupt the power structure and their position in it? Or was it purely racist, with the powerful just believing it was wrong for black people to have equal rights?

Re: What an Uncensored Letter to M.L.K. Reveals

#118
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chill out and pick different audience. Most people on HN are not just "scraping by" unless making >$100k first year after college is now called scraping by. I would say overall HN audience benefits much more from current political, economic and financial situation than suffer from it. It's probably not true for reddit so you can find more receptive audience there.

By scraping by, I mean working 60+ hours per week for those wages. Here in Switzerland we work a normal workweek (45 hours) for an average wage 2x that plus a better quality of life. Germany and London pay much less though but experienced developers can get decent wages. Edit: also, when I lived in the u.s. and ma"de significantly more than 100K I still felt like I was scraping by. Taxes in the u.s., especially Calif…

You're inventing all of that.

1) American workers don't work 60+ hours to earn 50% less than what people in Switzerland do.

2) The median income in the US is barely below that of Switzerland.

3) The average American worker does not work more than 45 hours per week for the median income.

4) If you compare people of a similar qualification + education + demographic, Americans earn more than people in Switzerland per hour worked, and have more disposable income thanks to a lower cost of living and lower taxes. The US has a very real poverty problem that is especially bad in the black community, and it substantially alters the stats on incomes / standard of living. The asian median household income for example is 100% higher than the median black household income.

Re: What an Uncensored Letter to M.L.K. Reveals

#119
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By scraping by, I mean working 60+ hours per week for those wages. Here in Switzerland we work a normal workweek (45 hours) for an average wage 2x that plus a better quality of life. Germany and London pay much less though but experienced developers can get decent wages. Edit: also, when I lived in the u.s. and ma"de significantly more than 100K I still felt like I was scraping by. Taxes in the u.s., especially Calif…

Wouldn't the cost of living and taxes in those countries normalize the incomes a little bit?

In fact it would drop Switzerland below the US. The cost of living in Switzerland is substantially higher than most of the US.

Re: What an Uncensored Letter to M.L.K. Reveals

#120
post #95
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Many forms of government have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried from time to time." - Winston Churchill

USA should try democracy then instead of being a republic.

What a hackneyed line. The USA is a democratic republic aka a form of democracy where the people elect their representatives; I'm pretty sure Winston Churchil understood the difference.
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