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Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

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Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EDIT: AC21 is for those who are applying for a green card (I-485 pending). How the heck is AC21 even connected to H1B? Source/link please? EDIT2: H1B transfer does not seem to involve AC21. All that happens is that the new employer will need to apply for a H1B petition all over again. So you are simply tied to the new employer, instead of your old employer. http://www.immihelp.com/visas/h1b/h1-transfer.html AC21 is n…

> AC21 is not free, there are legal fees and processing times involved. There is a non-zero cost involved. If this cost did not exist, if an employee could just switch jobs WITHOUT needing the receiving company to do anything, then obviously there would be no wage suppression. Employee can ask for a raise, and simply leave if refused. In the tech industry, most companies are willing to do an H1B transfer. The cost of…

> ..most companies.. > ..unlikely..

Yes all is well and there is no reason why foreign workers could ever feel pressued to stay in a crappy situation.

Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#112
post #20

When I graduated from colllege I started working at a top tech company on a contract to hire. The company was paid 50/hr fore and I was paid 20 an hour. When I asked for more, the indian-born Indian CEO of the company went apeshit on me. No real story only that almost everyone is scum. It's not just the companies. When I told the director of my org what I was getting paid she hired me full time right away at a compet…

There are two reasons (both sort of hard to fix) for why contracting is screwed up. 1. Co-employment- Large companies like Google or Apple would love to hire contractors directly but are very scared of being sued by contractors that can claim they were actually employees-not contractors because of the unclear rules around who is/is not an employee. So they introduce a staffing agency in between to become the 'employe…

[deleted]

Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#113

> Contracting with labor brokers also benefits US employers. They can staff up swiftly for temporary jobs and slim down just as fast, with workers paid below-market rates. I really don't understand why H1B visas aren't tied to the worker's pay. Considering that they're intended for difficult to find specialists, it should be easy enough to weed out fake applications by tying the visa to an at least average salary for…

That is one approach... but I would really like the H1 to not to be tied to an employer. Let it be open with instant portability. The only obligation is the current employer (even the original sponsor) has to report the employee assignment on the first date to the DHS. And if a company tries to put bond/restrictions on that movement (either in the US or back in the home country) penalize and remove their ability to get H1's for 5 years.

Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The company asks you to pay which you should NOT because it is illegal. The company however can hold you ransom to exit letter etc. which proves that you worked for the company. However, most people do not take that route. There are smart ways to avoid that coercion.

It is not illegal in India.

Sorry but it is. You want to say that it is practiced - sure I agree but it is illegal. Bonded labor has long been abolished in India.

Section 27 of the Indian Contract Act clearly says one sided contracts are void. Most contracts in these companies are one sided in nature and of the type - if you quit, then you pay X but if we fire you then we do not pay anything. The Supreme Court of India has clarified this Superintendence Company Of India ... vs Krishan Murgai on 9 May, 1980 [0].

In fact, Section 383 of the Indian Penal Code even makes the illegal to use the common coercive tactics by firms (TCS in the article) to withhold documents [1]. The tactic amounts to "extortion" and carries a punishment of 3 years of prison or fine or both [2]

TL;DR - Bonds are illegal and so is the practice of withholding ANY valuable to enforce vulnerability. The latter is a criminal offense.

[0] http://indiankanoon.org/doc/1186410/

[1] http://indiankanoon.org/doc/262864/

[2] http://indiankanoon.org/doc/1944660/

Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#115
post #2

Weird is how many of the bad employers are Indians themselves (or I think so, given they're names): Krishnan Kumar, from Softech Malini Sridhar, from Compsys Technologies (found through http://appext20.dos.ny.gov/ ) Tata Consultancy Services Ltd, part of India’s Tata group Even the lawyers suing these employees : > Past president of the South Asian Bar Association of Georgia, attorney Roy Banerjee has a penchant for…

"It takes a certain kind of person" is what they say, isn't it? That kind of person exists in all cultures/countries.

Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not illegal in India.

Sorry but it is. You want to say that it is practiced - sure I agree but it is illegal. Bonded labor has long been abolished in India. Section 27 of the Indian Contract Act clearly says one sided contracts are void. Most contracts in these companies are one sided in nature and of the type - if you quit, then you pay X but if we fire you then we do not pay anything . The Supreme Court of India has clarified this Super…

> sure I agree but it is illegal. Bonded labor has long been abolished in India.

The law doesn't seem to be doing much to protect the millions (perhaps as many as ten million) of people in bonded labour.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-27486450

> India's economy is the 10th largest in the world, but millions of the country's workers are thought to be held in conditions little better than slavery. [...]

> "There are deep-rooted problems of business-related human rights abuse in India," says Peter Frankental, Economic Relations Programme Director of Amnesty International UK. "Much of that involves the way business is conducted, an unwillingness to enforce laws against companies, and fabricated charges and false imprisonment against activists who try to bring these issues to light."

http://www.antislavery.org/english/what_we_do/programme_and_...

> In India, our work focused on freeing the millions of men, women and children forced to work as bonded labourers. Regardless of their age, they work long hours labouring in quarries, brick kilns, agriculture and as domestics, receiving little or no pay in return for a loan needed for survival.

http://idsn.org/caste-discrimination/key-issues/bonded-labou...

> In spite of the encompassing and seemingly progressive legislative framework, the use and abuse of Dalit bonded labourers in India remains endemic within a range of occupations and branches, both rural and urban, such as agriculture, forestry, fishing, domestic work, and cleaning. A report by Anti-Slavery International in 2008, revealed that dalit bonded labourers are employed to carry out the most physically straining and menial types of work in industries such as silk farms, rice mills, salt pans, fisheries, quarries and mines, tea and spice farming, brick-kilns, textile and domestic work(2).

Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#117
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens if you break it?

The company asks you to pay which you should NOT because it is illegal. The company however can hold you ransom to exit letter etc. which proves that you worked for the company. However, most people do not take that route. There are smart ways to avoid that coercion.

The agreement never uses the word bond. They like to claim that it's just compensation for training expenses.

Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#118
At a couple of companies I was at, an Indian jobs shop had somehow gotten their mitts into our HR types and we were indundated with candidates who showed up with books like "Learn Java in 12 hours" or "Windows Device Drivers for N00bs" under their arms. Very junior types, without exception. Our interview questions were fed back, and I had to change them a fair amount. Not a problem.

"The guy at XYZZY will ask about hash tables, so..." and I'd ask them questions about something else, like concurrency, to very obvious consternation. Halfway through an interview, one candidate even asked when I was going to ask about hash tables.

"Fine. We can talk about concurrency and hash tables."

There was an undercurrent of expectation. Their handler / manager (the relationship was never really made clear) called me one day and said "We expect you to give a job to several of our people. You keep changing your questions. What is the problem?" And I would explain that I wasn't going to hire someone junior, who we would have to teach how to do engineering, for a senior wage.

Eventually they stopped coming, presumably having found better pastures.

Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes IT work low-class. This, I believe is the true reason women don't work in IT.

Do you have data for these claims? Here in Germany most women prefer career paths that are paid worse than IT modulo medicine. Also, IT is not considered low-class, maybe because there are many academics in IT.

In the US it's considered low status because it's considered to have questionable long-term value, due to potential future outsourcing.

He's absolutely right. In the US, software development has always, until perhaps very recently, been considered a very low status career and with low long-term potential. That is, versus one of the classic engineering or medical jobs. By the way, in the US, IT generally means support desk job, which is seen as the lowest of the low. Only very recently has the median software development job approached anywhere near a medical specialist or the classic engineering job, and it's still far below the wage of many US doctors.

I'd say that the US general public is still expecting the imminent outsourcing of all software development, to foreigners making $2/hour somewhere far away, to occur soon. People in the field don't expect this, but that's how outsiders perceive it.

This low-status is a huge contributor to what keeps most US women from pursuing software development as a career, according to women I've talked to. It really is that simple and obvious.

This is also why there's a trend of US software developers prominently adding "scientist" or "engineer" to their job titles. Pure software development still has a low status stigma.

Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#120
post #98
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"For fresh grad though, if they quit earlier than 18 months, they have to pay almost a year of their salary, which seems reasonable when there are trainings when they joined the company." No, that is not ever reasonable anywhere in any situation. May be typical, but not reasonable.

It strikes me as a debatable point, which is what I believe fadzlan is saying. The company gets particularly cheap labor, the fresh grad gets training and real experience they can put on their resume . Plenty of people in the US are willing to work for free (intern) to get the latter.

the [client] company is charged a full rate for this headcount.

the [contracting] company pays a cheap price.

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