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Microsoft laid me off after 15 years of service. Life after Microsoft?

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Re: Microsoft laid me off after 15 years of service. Life after Microsoft?

#111
Getting laid off after 15 years at a large tech company is a very scary notion. For aspiring developers, here are some encouraging thoughts:

Pay is currently sufficiently high that you could, with a sufficiently frugal lifestyle and prudent investment habits, go from zero to millionaire in that time period. Being a millionaire isn't what it used to be, but that would provide one hell of a buffer should you find yourself laid off after 15 years.

Think of it like this. If your total compensation over that period averages $150k, that's about $7.7k/month net in CA, $8.8k in WA. If you can invest $4k of that per month at a conservative 4% annual return, you'll have $1M in 15 years; about $1.2M if your return is 6%; and about $1.4M if your return is 8%.

This is all assuming that you have don't marry a spouse during that period who is also earning an income and helping boost those savings.

This is just a back of the envelope calculation, but my main point is that if you're dedicated to the task and you work hard, you can create for yourself a very strong safety buffer over the course of a 15 year career in the technology industry. $1M is almost enough to retire off of if you were to move to a rural area of the country and continued to live frugally--health insurance would be your most costly concern.

Re: Microsoft laid me off after 15 years of service. Life after Microsoft?

#112
post #111

Getting laid off after 15 years at a large tech company is a very scary notion. For aspiring developers, here are some encouraging thoughts: Pay is currently sufficiently high that you could, with a sufficiently frugal lifestyle and prudent investment habits, go from zero to millionaire in that time period. Being a millionaire isn't what it used to be, but that would provide one hell of a buffer should you find yours…

Housing costs don't really make it practical in WA to put away $4k/month when you're pulling in $6-7k/month after taxes. A mortgage on any decent-ish place is going to be around $2500-$3500+ a month. If you just bought a place recently your savings were probably tapped out out to come up with the $100k+ down payment. It's definitely possible to save a lot of money, but $1 million in the bank is pretty tough IMHO.

Re: Microsoft laid me off after 15 years of service. Life after Microsoft?

#113
post #111

Getting laid off after 15 years at a large tech company is a very scary notion. For aspiring developers, here are some encouraging thoughts: Pay is currently sufficiently high that you could, with a sufficiently frugal lifestyle and prudent investment habits, go from zero to millionaire in that time period. Being a millionaire isn't what it used to be, but that would provide one hell of a buffer should you find yours…

There's the slight problem of there not being a conservative 4% annual return and inflation. How about marrying a spouse during that period who is raising your children and not working? Also that 1M is basically your house (or a portion thereof).

I think the reality of our generation is that the middle class (and yes, these guys are all middle class) has faced erosion of its standard of living. Salaries for engineers have barely kept up with inflation (in some case simply not) coupled with higher risks. Just as you say, being a millionaire ain't what it used to be and a lot of these middle class families are far from being millionaires. MS like many other companies is hoarding it's cash and helping increase the class gap.

That said it's still better to be an engineer in MS with a good salary than a homeless drug addict. Clever/frugal/single/some people can save money but it's not as easy as you make it sound.

Re: Microsoft laid me off after 15 years of service. Life after Microsoft?

#114
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After 15 years at MS, this guy is probably unemployable anywhere else unless he is open to learning new things and retraining. I've not seen the video so I don't know what he was really doing in Microsoft, but you know that there are other places where Microsoft software is used outside Microsoft, right? I don't get whz he should be unemployable anywhere else..

I don't know of too many places other than Microsoft where testing Microsoft software with Microsoft internal testing tools is an applicable skill.

The SDET role varied a lot by team, but in my experience it dealt a lot with building automated test tools and not manual testing or other rote tasks. The skills are definitely applicable elsewhere.

Re: Microsoft laid me off after 15 years of service. Life after Microsoft?

#115
post #111

Getting laid off after 15 years at a large tech company is a very scary notion. For aspiring developers, here are some encouraging thoughts: Pay is currently sufficiently high that you could, with a sufficiently frugal lifestyle and prudent investment habits, go from zero to millionaire in that time period. Being a millionaire isn't what it used to be, but that would provide one hell of a buffer should you find yours…

Housing costs don't really make it practical in WA to put away $4k/month when you're pulling in $6-7k/month after taxes. A mortgage on any decent-ish place is going to be around $2500-$3500+ a month. If you just bought a place recently your savings were probably tapped out out to come up with the $100k+ down payment. It's definitely possible to save a lot of money, but $1 million in the bank is pretty tough IMHO.

I said "sufficiently frugal" for a reason. You can't do this if you want to buy the big house in the big city and a fancy car right off the bat.

The way you do this is fairly simple: don't buy the house. Rent an apartment (not a luxury one), possibly even share it with a roommate.

I recognize that not everybody will be willing to do this. But owning a home in a major city is a luxury these days IMHO.

Besides, this is assuming you're doing this all on your own -- no income from a spouse. Why do you need a house by yourself?

(By the way, the income figure I cited was $8.8k/month in WA after taxes, not $6-7k.)

Re: Microsoft laid me off after 15 years of service. Life after Microsoft?

#116

I'd love to be laid off with a good severance. It's an extended paid vacation. It might be a slam to your ego, but every doer out there needs to know, you are seen by management as a cog in a machine, easily swapped out. Everyone is replaceable.

If you regard it as an "extended paid vacation" there's a good chance it's going to impact your earnings for years if not decades. It may be an opportunity to work on your side projects, get some training/education, reevaluate your options and direction, etc. but it's not a vacation. It's "unemployed" and just having that gap in your resume/job applications can really start to hurt you - in part because other people…

Q: What have you been doing since you were at XYZ?

A: I took a year off.

I don't think it's really that bad. People do that. It's not like you're going to be looking for a job on Mars, when you come back you'll call your friends (who by then have found jobs or started new companies) and through them you will find plenty of opportunity.

Those places where you're a cog - you probably don't want to work there anyways.

We need to rewire these workplaces. If they want cogs don't work there and let them know why.

Re: Microsoft laid me off after 15 years of service. Life after Microsoft?

#117
post #113
post #111

Getting laid off after 15 years at a large tech company is a very scary notion. For aspiring developers, here are some encouraging thoughts: Pay is currently sufficiently high that you could, with a sufficiently frugal lifestyle and prudent investment habits, go from zero to millionaire in that time period. Being a millionaire isn't what it used to be, but that would provide one hell of a buffer should you find yours…

There's the slight problem of there not being a conservative 4% annual return and inflation. How about marrying a spouse during that period who is raising your children and not working? Also that 1M is basically your house (or a portion thereof). I think the reality of our generation is that the middle class (and yes, these guys are all middle class) has faced erosion of its standard of living. Salaries for engineers…

I was talking about one specific scenario (no kids, living very frugally).

If you want kids and you want to do it on a single income, you're going to have to make compromises, very serious ones. Unfortunately, that's all there is to it. Keep in mind that one possible compromise is that you move--take a 20% paycut (or more) and move to an area where you can afford the lifestyle that you want while still saving a reduced but proportional amount to my example.

It's frankly a really bad idea for someone making very low six figures to try to raise a family on that income alone in an area where homes cost $1M (as you suggest they do).

Re: Microsoft laid me off after 15 years of service. Life after Microsoft?

#118
post #108
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're don't necessarily deserve $ n if the market can no longer bare it. There's nothing wrong with taking $(0.8 n ) if that's what the market has determined your skills are worth.

The problem is that the company is afraid that you'll bolt the second you get an offer at the n level again. They'd rather not hire you at all than hire you, invest in you, and then lose you just as quickly afterward.

Offer a longer term contract then. The guy in the video was at his last job for 15 years. I'm sure he'd be OK with that assuming the benefits were good enough.

Re: Microsoft laid me off after 15 years of service. Life after Microsoft?

#119

I guess, maybe it's OK to live in a socialistic country and pay a lot of tax. That insurance thing is a horrible situation to be in. I wonder how many staff will be replaced by cheap(er) fresh immigrants in the end (I am not against immigration BTW).

It isn't because of socialism. It's an accident of the tax code. Medical coverage is tax-deductible for businesses (as an expense) but not for individuals. This loophole in the tax code was not closed by the recent healthcare reforms, which is a big shame.

Re: Microsoft laid me off after 15 years of service. Life after Microsoft?

#120
He says that he will try to be a youtuber full-time now, but I don't think that it will last very long. He was definitely earning a lot more while he was working in Microsoft, and working on videos full-time while he only has This particular guy's future aside, I wonder what exactly Microsoft's "future picture" is that they chose to lay off what seems like a large number of talented people. How will the company function without the people in key roles? I wonder how they will relocate the remaining manpower so that they will continue to be successful.
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