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How to prevent screenshots in a web browser

patrick-wied.at

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Re: How to prevent screenshots in a web browser

#111

Post by moheeb »

shmerl wrote: post #104
stcredzero wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

tl;dr - Let's please think about the economics! Let's not just believe emotionally charged Internet aphorisms, but examine things thoughtfully. Authentication and information security has nothing to do with DRM, even though both can have features like encryption. Let's not mix unrelated subjects. What is the limiting of who can have my personal data and when, but Digital Rights Management, or DRM? One cannot stop at…

Let me repeat it again. Authentication is OK. DRM is not. If you don't get the difference, let's explain. Authentication is simply ensuring that you are you. Normal security mechanism, nothing wrong with it. DRM can employ authentication in itself, sure. But DRM is not about ensuring that you are you. DRM is about limiting what you can do with your own system in various ways and / or spying on you (even when it alrea…

"It's evil because it's using police state methodology of treating everyone as potential criminal and employing presumption of guilt"

Isn't that what you're doing when you lock your doors though?

Re: How to prevent screenshots in a web browser

#112

Post by shmerl »

moheeb wrote: post #111
shmerl wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me repeat it again. Authentication is OK. DRM is not. If you don't get the difference, let's explain. Authentication is simply ensuring that you are you. Normal security mechanism, nothing wrong with it. DRM can employ authentication in itself, sure. But DRM is not about ensuring that you are you. DRM is about limiting what you can do with your own system in various ways and / or spying on you (even when it alrea…

" It's evil because it's using police state methodology of treating everyone as potential criminal and employing presumption of guilt " Isn't that what you're doing when you lock your doors though?

> Isn't that what you're doing when you lock your doors though?

No. You lock your doors to protect your house from external threats. Here it's completely reversed. DRM invades your private digital space (your computer, your system, the programs you run etc.) for the sake of policing you. I.e. it's not like a lock on your house doors. It's like a police camera placed inside your house. That's exactly what makes it overreaching and unacceptable.

Policing itself is a not an evil idea in general. But it's evil when it's overreaching. Saying - "let's prevent crime" is OK. Saying "let's place police cameras in everyone's house to prevent crime" is not OK.

Re: How to prevent screenshots in a web browser

#113

Post by stcredzero »

shmerl wrote: post #104
stcredzero wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

tl;dr - Let's please think about the economics! Let's not just believe emotionally charged Internet aphorisms, but examine things thoughtfully. Authentication and information security has nothing to do with DRM, even though both can have features like encryption. Let's not mix unrelated subjects. What is the limiting of who can have my personal data and when, but Digital Rights Management, or DRM? One cannot stop at…

Let me repeat it again. Authentication is OK. DRM is not. If you don't get the difference, let's explain. Authentication is simply ensuring that you are you. Normal security mechanism, nothing wrong with it. DRM can employ authentication in itself, sure. But DRM is not about ensuring that you are you. DRM is about limiting what you can do with your own system in various ways and / or spying on you (even when it alrea…

Let me repeat it again. Authentication is OK. DRM is not. If you don't get the difference, let's explain.

Let me explain AGAIN -- I'm not talking about such a system running on your machine. I'm talking about such mechanisms running in Facebook's, Apple's, Google's, and the NSA's server farms. It's about 4 messages into this thread. Please get a clue.

Re: How to prevent screenshots in a web browser

#114

Post by stcredzero »

shmerl wrote: post #106
stcredzero wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Evidently you either simply didn't read or understand my proposal, and you mistakenly believe I am writing in support of corporations using DRM against individuals. That is the complete opposite of the truth. What is fundamentally broken is the idea of overreaching preemptive policing (DRM). The record clearly shows that applied to individuals, DRM becomes "fundamentally broken overreaching preemptive policing." The…

I think you simply use the term DRM incorrectly. You think DRM means information security. It doesn't. "Turning it around" makes it not DRM anymore.

"Digital Rights Management" -- you know, words mean something. If it's digital, and it's used to manage rights to that digital information, then it applies. Also, if you had a clue to the academic and research origins of DRM, you'd know it's also "trusted execution." DRM as you are aware of it in the hands of Sony et al is just one single application of DRM/trusted execution. Just like HTML is just one application of the more general SGML or the abstract notion of markup languages in general.

I think you simply use the term DRM incorrectly. You think DRM means information security. It doesn't. "Turning it around" makes it not DRM anymore.

I think I've made the mistake of discussing while assuming the wrong level of information background amongst the participants.

Re: How to prevent screenshots in a web browser

#115

Post by moheeb »

shmerl wrote: post #112
moheeb wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" It's evil because it's using police state methodology of treating everyone as potential criminal and employing presumption of guilt " Isn't that what you're doing when you lock your doors though?

> Isn't that what you're doing when you lock your doors though? No. You lock your doors to protect your house from external threats. Here it's completely reversed. DRM invades your private digital space (your computer, your system, the programs you run etc.) for the sake of policing you . I.e. it's not like a lock on your house doors. It's like a police camera placed inside your house . That's exactly what makes it o…

The previous poster is talking about personal DRM. You keep misunderstanding what they are saying.

In the personal DRM case it would not be invading "your private digital space", you would be using it to protect your digital space.

It is not like "a police camera placed inside your house." It is the equivalent of the homeowner placing a security camera themselves to protect their property.

Re: How to prevent screenshots in a web browser

#116

Post by todd3834 »

shmerl wrote: post #82
pa7 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you please elaborate what's offending you? (author here) for me it was just a fun experiment I didn't intend to offend anyone

Just the notion that DRM is something that should be used in general. I find the concept of DRM to be insulting towards the users. Also this part: > seems like there is a problem — let’s solve it for fun and profit It's like saying: "Police state struggles with policing measures. Let's help it for fun and profit". I hope you get the idea why this can sound offending.

I don't see anything wrong with developing a better bike lock for fun and profit. Not to build a straw-man argument but isn't that the same line of thinking?

Re: How to prevent screenshots in a web browser

#117

Post by WorldWideWayne »

scrollaway wrote: post #95
dsr_ wrote: post #12

How to drive away customers: prioritize your unproven loss of income over making an attractive product. Accuse all your users of copyright infringement.

It is unbelievable that the entire comment thread is filled with people saying it's a bad article, it can be worked around, etc, when: 1. The article is an experiment on techniques and what can be achieved. 2. At the VERY BEGINNING of the article, the author links to his own comment in a previous HN post which said "I do not advocate using any of the techniques, please don't use it, it's terrible and will give your u…

The person you're responding to didn't say "it's a bad article" or that "it can be worked around". I'm guessing that the root comment was simply a reaction to the title. I bet they didn't even read the article. However, you must be aware that the majority of the technical user community hates DRM.

Regarding your points 1, 2 and 3... where does it stop? Should we always be enthusiastic about experimentation for the sake of experimentation? At what point would you say "that's stupid"?

For instance, what if the title was: How To Dump Toxins In Your Local Water Supply

Would you read the article and then come here and congratulate the author on their efforts? I bet most people would glance at the article and then come here and complain about too many toxins in the water and what a jerk the author is.

Re: How to prevent screenshots in a web browser

#118

Post by shmerl »

todd3834 wrote: post #116
shmerl wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just the notion that DRM is something that should be used in general. I find the concept of DRM to be insulting towards the users. Also this part: > seems like there is a problem — let’s solve it for fun and profit It's like saying: "Police state struggles with policing measures. Let's help it for fun and profit". I hope you get the idea why this can sound offending.

I don't see anything wrong with developing a better bike lock for fun and profit. Not to build a straw-man argument but isn't that the same line of thinking?

I explained the analogy above. DRM is not like a bike lock at all.

Re: How to prevent screenshots in a web browser

#119

Post by shmerl »

stcredzero wrote: post #113
shmerl wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me repeat it again. Authentication is OK. DRM is not. If you don't get the difference, let's explain. Authentication is simply ensuring that you are you. Normal security mechanism, nothing wrong with it. DRM can employ authentication in itself, sure. But DRM is not about ensuring that you are you. DRM is about limiting what you can do with your own system in various ways and / or spying on you (even when it alrea…

Let me repeat it again. Authentication is OK. DRM is not. If you don't get the difference, let's explain. Let me explain AGAIN -- I'm not talking about such a system running on your machine. I'm talking about such mechanisms running in Facebook's, Apple's, Google's, and the NSA's server farms. It's about 4 messages into this thread. Please get a clue.

> I'm talking about such mechanisms running in Facebook's, Apple's, Google's, and the NSA's server farms.

Which is? Security threat for them (same as DRM which runs on your machine is a security threat for you). It doesn't sound sensible.

Re: How to prevent screenshots in a web browser

#120

Post by shmerl »

moheeb wrote: post #115
shmerl wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Isn't that what you're doing when you lock your doors though? No. You lock your doors to protect your house from external threats. Here it's completely reversed. DRM invades your private digital space (your computer, your system, the programs you run etc.) for the sake of policing you . I.e. it's not like a lock on your house doors. It's like a police camera placed inside your house . That's exactly what makes it o…

The previous poster is talking about personal DRM. You keep misunderstanding what they are saying. In the personal DRM case it would not be invading " your private digital space ", you would be using it to protect your digital space. It is not like " a police camera placed inside your house. " It is the equivalent of the homeowner placing a security camera themselves to protect their property.

There is no such thing as "personal DRM". That's what you and the previous poster fail to understand. DRM is always about policing others by invading their digital space.

Protecting your own digital space is called security. Let's be clear on terms usage, otherwise time will be wasted because of misunderstanding.

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