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NSA targets the privacy-conscious

daserste.ndr.de

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Re: NSA targets the privacy-conscious

#111

Post by pessimizer »

throwaway5752 wrote: post #89
bilalq wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can literally replace "seek privacy and security" with almost anything in that statement. I mean, out of all the people that prefer Coke over Pepsi, there are definitely some bad guys. While your statement is true, it doesn't really give any justification on targeted spying. That is, unless of course, we consider the desire to hide things to be a signal of being a bad actor. Thinking along those lines is a very s…

That's nonsense. If a credible actor poses a threat, they will attempt to do a competent job hiding their communications and data. Those that don't are by definition less competent and less likely to pose a threat. Pardon the bluntless, but it seems like an a priori conclusion that only people taking pains to hide their data/communications should be targeted. That is not because the vast majority of those people are…

>Fire in a crowded theater

This is a quote by a judge in a trial that put someone in prison for passing out antiwar fliers. It's good to know the source of our philosophies.

edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schenck_v._United_States

When we accept that "shouting fire in a crowded theater" isn't protected speech, we're backing up an argument that was used to put someone in prison for non-violent anti-state speech. Not token prison either; 6 months. That is not a good thing, and not an acceptable baseline to guide us in the examination of other issues.

Re: NSA targets the privacy-conscious

#112

Post by Holbein »

pessimizer wrote: post #104
Holbein wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, when you say > You won't get to hear about how the trial turns out from your grave that's equally projecting something onto me, so... that's not a great way to have a productive discussion neither.

Do you think I'm accusing you of having been hit by a car? I'm not. It was an analogy.

Well, it was ambiguous to say the least, with all those "you"'s in it. If it was meant as an analogy, maybe you should have written it like this:

> This is also silly. That's like people who walk into speeding traffic because they have the right-of-way. They won't get to hear about how the trial turns out from their grave.

Re: NSA targets the privacy-conscious

#113

Post by sitkack »

frostmatthew wrote: post #95
bsder wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would amend that to: "Is it any surprise the bureaucracy wishes to protect the bureaucracy?"

"The only thing that saves us from the bureaucracy is inefficiency. An efficient bureaucracy is the greatest threat to liberty." - Eugene McCarthy

"Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for." - Will Rogers

Re: NSA targets the privacy-conscious

#114

Post by neurobro »

bsder wrote: post #60
schoen wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the biggest difficulties for "easy and secure" key exchange is that so many people want to be able to access private communications on many different devices. How do you authorize a new device in an "easy and secure" way without simply outsourcing the problem to an intermediary who is then in a position to attack you by authorizing its own devices? This issue has quite concrete implications for the security an…

"The perfect is the enemy of the good." Just authorize. If you have perfect-forward secrecy, as long as you aren't being man-in-the-middled right now , you're safe. It's better to have all people doing everything encrypted by default than not. The goal isn't for one individual to be safe against a targeted NSA attack. That's insane--if the NSA wants you, specifically you are screwed; it simply has far too many resour…

Fully agreed up until your last sentence: It's not going to happen unless they have reason to believe it will lead to evidence of someone doing something wrong, and that it will be wrong enough to justify the effort.

Re: NSA targets the privacy-conscious

#115

Post by jqm »

kps wrote: post #69
jqm wrote: post #30

"It also records details about visits to a popular internet journal for Linux operating system users called "the Linux Journal - the Original Magazine of the Linux Community", and calls it an "extremist forum"." WTF? I guess I am on a list. Who knew being an extremist was so easy?

No, it doesn't say that Linux Journal itself is an ‘extremist forum’. It says that TAILs is “advocated by extremists on extremist forums”, and includes Linux Journal as a source of information about TAILs, neither of which seem surprising.

Yes it says exactly that. Thus the quotes "" in my post.

4'th bullet point from the top in case you wish to check again.

Re: NSA targets the privacy-conscious

#116

Post by pessimizer »

anigbrowl wrote: post #107
pessimizer wrote: post #20

Of course this happens, and it's an obvious technique. I'm sure that not having a facebook account adds to your score, using AdBlock adds to your score, mentioning the NSA online adds to your score, refusing cookies adds to your score, using Linux adds to your score, etc. That's how a police state works. (XKeyScore += 5) My mother was involved in civil rights, so she has a file. It's fine that I have a file too. Hope…

That's how any sort of metric works - your credit score, your Acxiom consumer category score, whatever metrics Facebook and Google use to score user engagement. This is just how life is when databases are ubiquitous. After I bought a house and my name began appearing in property tax databases I started getting lots of (paper-based) commercial spam for things homeowners are more likely to buy, like different sorts of…

I think people are too busy, too desperate, and too badly educated to do anything about it. Most people were only being kept solvent by credit cards, borrowing against the equity in their houses, and taking massive loans for major purchases - and when credit got tight, people started setting up tents on Wall Street. The next crash is going to be a terrifying experience.

A little bit of war, however, will probably dull any of that.

Re: NSA targets the privacy-conscious

#117

Post by pessimizer »

Holbein wrote: post #112
pessimizer wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think I'm accusing you of having been hit by a car? I'm not. It was an analogy.

Well, it was ambiguous to say the least, with all those "you"'s in it. If it was meant as an analogy, maybe you should have written it like this: > This is also silly. That's like people who walk into speeding traffic because they have the right-of-way. They won't get to hear about how the trial turns out from their grave.

You really thought that I was accusing you of being hit by a car? Mind blown. Point noted, I'll try to be more careful next time.

Re: NSA targets the privacy-conscious

#118

Post by kps »

jqm wrote: post #115
kps wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it doesn't say that Linux Journal itself is an ‘extremist forum’. It says that TAILs is “advocated by extremists on extremist forums”, and includes Linux Journal as a source of information about TAILs, neither of which seem surprising.

Yes it says exactly that. Thus the quotes "" in my post. 4'th bullet point from the top in case you wish to check again.

The article, which presumably was written by the authors on its byline rather than by the NSA, says that. The actual config file, linked from the article, at http://daserste.ndr.de/panorama/xkeyscorerules100.txt says:

  /*
  These variables define terms and websites relating to the TAILs (The Amnesic
  Incognito Live System) software program, a comsec mechanism advocated by
  extremists on extremist forums.
  */
Linux Journal is listed there, as a ‘website relating to TAILS’, not as an ‘extremist forum’.

Journalists gotta journalize.

Re: NSA targets the privacy-conscious

#119

Post by lucb1e »

pessimizer wrote: post #103
tomphoolery wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish I could find out my XKeyScore. I'm genuinely interested in how threatening the NSA believes average people are.

XKeyScore is the new credit report:)

Credit report? Wait until fiancés gets the legal right to see your score.

Re: NSA targets the privacy-conscious

#120

Post by lucb1e »

higherpurpose wrote: post #70
pessimizer wrote: post #20

Of course this happens, and it's an obvious technique. I'm sure that not having a facebook account adds to your score, using AdBlock adds to your score, mentioning the NSA online adds to your score, refusing cookies adds to your score, using Linux adds to your score, etc. That's how a police state works. (XKeyScore += 5) My mother was involved in civil rights, so she has a file. It's fine that I have a file too. Hope…

Amplify this by 100, and welcome to Minority Report, where you get a arrested for having a "very high score". This is where the "mass surveillance" and "let's monitor everyone just in case they might do something bad" thinking inevitably ends up.

> you get a arrested for having a "very high score".

I was thinking more in terms of automated drone strikes, but yeah for the facade of democracy arrests may be the way to go for now.

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