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A Statement About Mahbod’s Annotations on Elliot Rodger’s Manifesto

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Re: A Statement About Mahbod’s Annotations on Elliot Rodger’s Manifesto

#111

Post by girvo »

MartinCron wrote: post #98
girvo wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And his videos were specifcally saying he hated everyone . He was a severely mentally ill sick person who is now dead and took innocent people with him. Seriously, misogyny doesn't have all that much to do with it, from my perspective. Yes, he was a misogynist, but the unsaid implication I've seen all over the web is that "All misogynists are just like this guy!", which doesn't follow, as far as I'm concerned. I just…

Part of the fear that many people have is that you can't always tell the difference between a garden-variety "just angry at chicks" guy and a "one bad day away from taking out a sorority guy" until it is too late.

Yeah, I'll grant that. Serial killers throughout history often hid their broken-ness for years while getting away with it all... but this isn't a common occurrence. This isn't something that should factor into a persons risk-assessment while going about their daily life. This is a sad, messed up situation, but the reason it's so news-worthy is because this doesn't happen that often (thank )

Re: A Statement About Mahbod’s Annotations on Elliot Rodger’s Manifesto

#112

Post by adventured »

fleitz wrote: post #62
tptacek wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if we stipulate that every paragraph in the diary should be taken at face value, psychopathy is not defined simply as the absence of empathy.

It's actually not really defined at all in terms of an actual medical illness. It's mostly an invention of the criminal justice system. Sociopathy/Psycopathy is about as real as Drapetomania or hysteria. It's the modern day blasphemy, if you question the state or authority you are 'anti-social'

We understand enough about psychopathy that we can now fairly easily identify it by tests and brain scans. We can also fairly easily identify it in children at a very early age. The symptoms and behaviors are not particularly difficult to pick out. It's obviously very real. Unless you're suggesting child psychopaths have learned how to alter their own brains such that their brain scans look different than normal children and they are capable at the age of six of faking psychopathic behavior every day of their lives.

I suggest you upgrade your knowledge on the topic.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/13/magazine/can-you-call-a-9-...

Re: A Statement About Mahbod’s Annotations on Elliot Rodger’s Manifesto

#113

Post by adventured »

coldtea wrote: post #96

> but went beyond that into gleeful insensitivity and misogyny. All of which is contrary to everything we’re trying to accomplish at Rap Genius. Yeah, because otherwise most rap is all about sensitivity and feminism. I mean, they'd never embrace Ice Cube's records there, right? I just see corporate drones fearing for their dollars because of the backslash against this guy's annotations. The noble thing to do would ha…

You're not going to find very many people in tech that are going to get within a million miles of seriously discussing that Rap Genius is filled with bigoted, racist, misogynist content.

The political correct world today is strictly about inflicting damage upon populist targets, while not targeting other bigots that don't qualify for the agenda. It's a deranged movement of convenient targets.

Re: A Statement About Mahbod’s Annotations on Elliot Rodger’s Manifesto

#114

Post by adventured »

girvo wrote: post #110
king_jester wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, he was a misogynist, but the unsaid implication I've seen all over the web is that "All misogynists are just like this guy!", which doesn't follow, as far as I'm concerned. Not all misogynists will act out in physical violence, but misogyny provides fuel for those that do and it also provides excuses for those actions when they occur. Ultimately misogyny encourages violence against women, period. > I just writ…

I'll gladly agree with you. But that is not this case. This was severe mental illness, not misogyny. More to the point, to those who said "he killed men because he couldn't kill the sorority" miss the fact that he stabbed two men to death first . This case was someone who was very very sick, and decided to lash out at the world , and innocent people paid the price. Those who attempt to paint it as "MRA's are dangerou…

You're not supposed to talk about the four men he killed, including the three he stabbed to death. It ruins the script.

Re: A Statement About Mahbod’s Annotations on Elliot Rodger’s Manifesto

#115

Post by gordonguthrie »

girvo wrote: post #111
MartinCron wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the fear that many people have is that you can't always tell the difference between a garden-variety "just angry at chicks" guy and a "one bad day away from taking out a sorority guy" until it is too late.

Yeah, I'll grant that. Serial killers throughout history often hid their broken-ness for years while getting away with it all... but this isn't a common occurrence. This isn't something that should factor into a persons risk-assessment while going about their daily life. This is a sad, messed up situation, but the reason it's so news-worthy is because this doesn't happen that often (thank )

It's not misogny because 'serial killers' - that is a group who are overwhelmingly men, overwhelming same, overwhelmingky kill women and overwhelmingly use sadistic sexual violence and mutilation.

> Its newsworthy because it doesn't happen that often. You are kidding me right? Sexual violence is continuous.

Re: A Statement About Mahbod’s Annotations on Elliot Rodger’s Manifesto

#116

Post by gordonguthrie »

adventured wrote: post #114
girvo wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll gladly agree with you. But that is not this case. This was severe mental illness, not misogyny. More to the point, to those who said "he killed men because he couldn't kill the sorority" miss the fact that he stabbed two men to death first . This case was someone who was very very sick, and decided to lash out at the world , and innocent people paid the price. Those who attempt to paint it as "MRA's are dangerou…

You're not supposed to talk about the four men he killed, including the three he stabbed to death. It ruins the script.

...and what script is that?

Re: A Statement About Mahbod’s Annotations on Elliot Rodger’s Manifesto

#117

Post by girvo »

gordonguthrie wrote: post #115
girvo wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I'll grant that. Serial killers throughout history often hid their broken-ness for years while getting away with it all... but this isn't a common occurrence. This isn't something that should factor into a persons risk-assessment while going about their daily life. This is a sad, messed up situation, but the reason it's so news-worthy is because this doesn't happen that often (thank )

It's not misogny because 'serial killers' - that is a group who are overwhelmingly men, overwhelming same, overwhelmingky kill women and overwhelmingly use sadistic sexual violence and mutilation. > Its newsworthy because it doesn't happen that often. You are kidding me right? Sexual violence is continuous.

Oh for christ's sake, this is obviously pointless. You win. I give. Uncle. Whatever.

Also, you're wrong. And if you think misogyny (or whatever cause du jour we're using today) creates serial killers, and not mental illness then you're more than welcome to believe that. Plenty of psychologists say you're entirely incorrect[0], and I'll defer to them on this, but this "discussion" is utterly pointless, as you cherry pick whichever sentence you feel like pulling apart and ignoring the rest of it -- which are facts for the most part, not my opinion.

[0] http://time.com/114354/elliot-rodger-ucsb-misogyny/

Ps. You know, I'm not even arguing that cultural misogyny isn't a problem. I think it is, and am a big believer that we have a problem in our tech industry that we need to fix. What I'm arguing is that you're currently no better than those who blame video games for shootings, ignoring the real cause, which is broken, sick people.

EDIT:

Oh and you're wrong. Victims are not "overwhelmingly" women, nor is it "overwhelmingly" because of sadistic motives. See [1]:

  Characteristics of U.S. Serial Killer Victims
  
  Sex     N%
  Male   
  3,854   44.54%
  
  Female
  4,799   55.46%
[1] http://maamodt.asp.radford.edu/Serial%20Killer%20Information...

Re: A Statement About Mahbod’s Annotations on Elliot Rodger’s Manifesto

#118

Post by gordonguthrie »

girvo wrote: post #117
gordonguthrie wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not misogny because 'serial killers' - that is a group who are overwhelmingly men, overwhelming same, overwhelmingky kill women and overwhelmingly use sadistic sexual violence and mutilation. > Its newsworthy because it doesn't happen that often. You are kidding me right? Sexual violence is continuous.

Oh for christ's sake, this is obviously pointless. You win. I give. Uncle. Whatever. Also, you're wrong. And if you think misogyny (or whatever cause du jour we're using today) creates serial killers, and not mental illness then you're more than welcome to believe that. Plenty of psychologists say you're entirely incorrect[0], and I'll defer to them on this, but this "discussion" is utterly pointless, as you cherry p…

You're right I was generalising from Scotland/the UK. The definition of Serial Killer being 2 or more unrelating killings. In Scotland there is somewhere between 1 and 3 multiple murders a year, not all of which are serial killings by the strict definition.

http://www.scccj.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/0124207_h...

In the serial killing figures you show the numbers are overwhelming dominated by the US where the high availability of guns make multiple murders more common - and the number of sexual serial killers much less as a proportion.

In Europe, I stand by my statement that serial killers are overwhelmingly, etc, etc...

Re: A Statement About Mahbod’s Annotations on Elliot Rodger’s Manifesto

#119

Post by MartinCron »

girvo wrote: post #111
MartinCron wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the fear that many people have is that you can't always tell the difference between a garden-variety "just angry at chicks" guy and a "one bad day away from taking out a sorority guy" until it is too late.

Yeah, I'll grant that. Serial killers throughout history often hid their broken-ness for years while getting away with it all... but this isn't a common occurrence. This isn't something that should factor into a persons risk-assessment while going about their daily life. This is a sad, messed up situation, but the reason it's so news-worthy is because this doesn't happen that often (thank )

This kind of mass murder isn't a common occurrence. But sexual violence against women absolutely is a common occurrence. The way women feel terrorized about this is a real thing. It brings up both unpleasant memories and legitimate fears.

This is scary shit. It is OK to be scared by it.

Re: A Statement About Mahbod’s Annotations on Elliot Rodger’s Manifesto

#120

Post by meric »

tod222 wrote: post #87
riggins wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the diary is not particularly well-written depends on your standards. He's not a professional author but I think he's probably better than your average college grad. studded with evidence of psychopathy genuinely interested. could you point to some of these. I've been skimming it and haven't really seen that. in fact, this struck me as empathetic James’s mother, Kim Ellis, had just passed away from breast cancer. I c…

> in fact, this struck me as empathetic This really isn't empathy. Roger is not feeling his friend's pain—he's transferring his friend's situation to himself and feeling his own pain. He's crying in imagined self-pity. Roger describes crying in self-pity or frustration many times in the document, even into adulthood. A quick word count: 34 cried 10 cry 19 crying 9 tears I read (mostly) the first two thirds of the doc…

The narcissism is a defense mechanism for a badly wounded self, it's not especially unsurprising to see an individual who uses 63 variations of the word 'cry' in a document to exhibit narcissistic behavior.
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