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Stop Leaning In. Put Down Your IPhone. And HELP ME.

kirstensamazing.com

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Re: Stop Leaning In. Put Down Your IPhone. And HELP ME.

#111

Post by dTal »

joshstrange wrote: post #100

I expect to gather quite a few downvotes for this viewpoint but here it goes. There is no way I would have intervened. I am a male and I can't see my involvement in the situation working out for me at all. Now you might say I'm wrong for putting my self-preservation above that on Kristen's but this isn't just about preventing physical harm to myself. In fact if I knew that I would only be cut (non-fatal) then I would…

>If the attacker was actually stabbing Kristen then it would be a different story but that's not what happened

"suddenly we were brawling, she swinging at me with a knife in one hand"

"I felt blood flowing down my face. 'SOMEBODY HELP ME!' People stare and watch."

"Please, she’s got a knife, she’s trying to stab me, please! ANYONE!"

Seems to me that it was pretty clear that actual knife attacking was taking place. She's got blood streaming down her face crying blue murder about a girl with a knife - you wouldn't help because she hadn't actually been stabbed yet?

How would you live with yourself?

Re: Stop Leaning In. Put Down Your IPhone. And HELP ME.

#112

Post by rrss1122 »

joshstrange wrote: post #100

I expect to gather quite a few downvotes for this viewpoint but here it goes. There is no way I would have intervened. I am a male and I can't see my involvement in the situation working out for me at all. Now you might say I'm wrong for putting my self-preservation above that on Kristen's but this isn't just about preventing physical harm to myself. In fact if I knew that I would only be cut (non-fatal) then I would…

You're assuming too much when you assume that a bystander will attack you. So many people saw the random attacker assault Kristen, no one did a thing about it. You will be the 1 in 100 that would do something about it, chances are there will be no one else.

Re: Stop Leaning In. Put Down Your IPhone. And HELP ME.

#113

Post by joshstrange »

rrss1122 wrote: post #112
joshstrange wrote: post #100

I expect to gather quite a few downvotes for this viewpoint but here it goes. There is no way I would have intervened. I am a male and I can't see my involvement in the situation working out for me at all. Now you might say I'm wrong for putting my self-preservation above that on Kristen's but this isn't just about preventing physical harm to myself. In fact if I knew that I would only be cut (non-fatal) then I would…

You're assuming too much when you assume that a bystander will attack you. So many people saw the random attacker assault Kristen, no one did a thing about it. You will be the 1 in 100 that would do something about it, chances are there will be no one else.

Two women fighting != a man kicking a women in the head

I think you are assuming too much when you assume a bystander won't attack a man attacking a women in public.

Re: Stop Leaning In. Put Down Your IPhone. And HELP ME.

#114

Post by joshstrange »

dTal wrote: post #111
joshstrange wrote: post #100

I expect to gather quite a few downvotes for this viewpoint but here it goes. There is no way I would have intervened. I am a male and I can't see my involvement in the situation working out for me at all. Now you might say I'm wrong for putting my self-preservation above that on Kristen's but this isn't just about preventing physical harm to myself. In fact if I knew that I would only be cut (non-fatal) then I would…

>If the attacker was actually stabbing Kristen then it would be a different story but that's not what happened "suddenly we were brawling, she swinging at me with a knife in one hand" "I felt blood flowing down my face. 'SOMEBODY HELP ME!' People stare and watch." "Please, she’s got a knife, she’s trying to stab me, please! ANYONE!" Seems to me that it was pretty clear that actual knife attacking was taking place. Sh…

I'm sorry I misread that as "blood rushing to my face" which is obviously wrong. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume it was small cut and not a gash (we really would need pictures to know for sure but this story is VERY light on any evidence, I'm going further out on that limb and assume the picture was not included because it wasn't a bad cut and didn't make the story seem as bad). Two women fighting can scratch each other's face and I still wouldn't get involved. When I wrote that I was imagining more of a "stabbing" and not a cut on her face. Regardless I stand by my TL;DR of: A phone and purse are not worth the victims or a potential rescuers life (both immediate and long term). This would have been avoided if Kristen had simply handed over her phone and purse.

Re: Stop Leaning In. Put Down Your IPhone. And HELP ME.

#115

Post by crashoverdrive »

jellicle wrote: post #86

Let's evaluate for real, the cost-benefit of intervening physically against a knife-wielding crazy person: -- Minimum: you'll miss the day of work, have an arrest on your record which you'll have to disclose forever and which may cost you your career, may make it impossible to enter foreign countries, and so on. -- Probable: you'll miss many days of work due to police/legal complications. Significant chance of losing…

I want to be clear, because I understand that in my post it isn't clear. For the total of the entire event, she only had the knife out for maybe two minutes of it tops. The rest she was just following me around. And when she would get close enough, press into me, pushing me/threaten me.

I, being in an orthopedic boot, was unable to move at anything more than a quick hobble.

Re: Stop Leaning In. Put Down Your IPhone. And HELP ME.

#116

Post by IanDrake »

kagebe wrote: post #109
IanDrake wrote: post #91

Wow, scary stuff. I've been there with crazy people, alone, at night, at a T-stop in Boston. One thing you can do, is put your keys in your hand, and make a fist with the keys pointed outward from your knuckles. That will make punches way more effective and one good punch could blind your assailant, which is exactly what you want to do. Another thing to consider is getting a gun or at least supporting gun rights. Not…

> If someone was caring a gun, they could have helped. If she were caring, then she could have put an end to this nightmare herself. No, that is not how it would work out in most (if not all) cases. Especially not in such a public place. And especially not if the gun was contained in something, e.g. her purse. Even if that person were a great shot, in a (even moderately) close combat fight with a knife-wielder, she w…

Typically people who don't own a gun don't have any training with guns. These same people also think that people who do have guns don't have any training as well.

In fact, most people who own guns are well trained. I can also assure you that even under stress you can hit a human sized target from 15 feet very easily.

Most of the state laws about even brandishing a fire arm have to do with inescapable life threatening harm, meaning you can't just run away. In the blogger's case she couldn't run due to an injury, but based on her description she would have had time to properly use a gun in defense and it would have been legal for her to do so in my state of MA.

I was trained by a former police detective and told in a knife situation, if you couldn't escape, draw your weapon, yell stop or I will shoot, then shoot if they're within 15 feet and move toward you at all.

>Even if it worked, there would be the question of ethics

Ethics? Someone threatens to kill you, has a deadly weapon, and is coming at you and you think there's still an ethical issue? Sure, they're crazy and sure, you could choose to let them kill you because you pity them, but I doubt that makes you ethically superior.

Re: Stop Leaning In. Put Down Your IPhone. And HELP ME.

#117

Post by crashoverdrive »

aaron695 wrote: post #57

Normal human reactions. OP also didn't react as hindsight tells us the answer. Hand it over. Why did they value something crappy like money over their life, are they so superficial? (Probably not) We've been told a million times just to hand it over, but OP still didn't. Concentrate on the long term issues, there are more and they are solvable through logic, like solving homelessness. Don't worry so much about how pe…

You are correct, in hindsight, I would have handed it over, halfway through fighting it over, while bleeding I contemplated handing it over? What stopped me from doing so in the beginning?

I had the largest presentation of my life that night for a public audience of 200 people and letting my company and CTO down. I couldn't imagine losing all of my things and not being able to do so. Yes it was a very selfish driver at the time, but my brain couldn't move beyond that thought.

Re: Stop Leaning In. Put Down Your IPhone. And HELP ME.

#118

Post by RogerL »

m0nty wrote: post #12

A few weeks ago, I was pedalling to work in the rain when I saw something which briefly made me well up with rage: a car parked diagonally across the cycle lane, driver clearly on the phone - a new level of "f*ck you" from a motorist to cyclists. But then I saw the skid-marks leading across the verge from the road, and I realised this was a bit more serious. I stopped and tapped on the window. She was very distraught…

You were lucky. I forget the paper I saw it in, so I cannot link to it, but it was a story of a very similar situation. Except the person that stopped to help ended up getting mugged and beaten. The police quoted in the article advised everyone to just call in situations like this and leave it to the authorities, to not involve themselves.

I'm not saying I agree (or disagree) with that advice, but there are good reasons for not getting involved.

Re: Stop Leaning In. Put Down Your IPhone. And HELP ME.

#119

Post by crashoverdrive »

m0nty wrote: post #12

A few weeks ago, I was pedalling to work in the rain when I saw something which briefly made me well up with rage: a car parked diagonally across the cycle lane, driver clearly on the phone - a new level of "f*ck you" from a motorist to cyclists. But then I saw the skid-marks leading across the verge from the road, and I realised this was a bit more serious. I stopped and tapped on the window. She was very distraught…

Because you're human! What do you think got your ancestors this far! Do those values no longer apply because we beat certain environmental elements?

Are we to suggest that community support is as vestigial as the tailbone?

Re: Stop Leaning In. Put Down Your IPhone. And HELP ME.

#120

Post by crashoverdrive »

hobbes wrote: post #4

Give her the phone! GIVE HER THE PHONE!! edit: OK, I'm being downvoted. That's fine. But, why put your irreplaceable life in mortal danger for the sake of keeping hold of replaceable consumer electronics? That's the disconnect I'm finding hard to process.

I don't know why you're being down voted either. In the moment I couldn't get past her wanting all of my things, and I couldn't get past having to do my presentation and letting all of my peers and company down. I froze and in the future that won't happen again, but you were right, I should have thrown my phone and hobbled away.
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