Earlier quoted context omitted.
What major?
Computer Science
What are you doing now and where do you live? I'm just curious. I am studying CS right now.
The Myth of the Science and Engineering Shortage
111–120 of 124 posts
Re: The Myth of the Science and Engineering Shortage
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
So you're asking people to apply for a job without telling them how much you will pay, and you think that this lack of information shouldn't affect whether they apply? Salary sensitive potential hires might be ruling themselves out at the application stage: for instance my assumption (as a software engineer) would be that if I have no idea what your salary offer will be, then it will be shit - if it's going to be dec…
Show me a company that advertises it publicly.
If no one is doing it, perhaps it's worth trying?
Re: The Myth of the Science and Engineering Shortage
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
Show me a company that advertises it publicly.
If no one is doing it, perhaps it's worth trying?
Perhaps I have an invisible dragon in my garage.
What do you think is more likely, that no one is doing it because it's highly effective or that no one is doing it because it causes problems?
Re: The Myth of the Science and Engineering Shortage
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't buy the hard to measure argument. CEOs at large companies make a tonne of money. This is usually justified by saying that they are more skilled than the average CEO but this kind of skill is also hard to quantify. Why does this argument work for CEO pay but not programmer pay? If there was really a shortage you'd see salaries for programmers going up. Instead there are documented cases of companies colluding…
"CEOs at large companies make a tonne of money. This is usually justified by saying that they are more skilled than the average CEO but this kind of skill is also hard to quantify. Why does this argument work for CEO pay but not programmer pay?" Because it's much easier to measure performance of CEO's, at least artificially. If Google does well, then you (supposedly) know that Larry Page is doing well. That's how the…
|Because it's much easier to measure performance of CEO's, at least artificially. If Google does well, then you (supposedly) know that Larry Page is doing well."
Originally I wrote a much longer reply but after re-reading it it came across as much more anti CEO compensation than I intended. I don't view short term market movements as an accurate reflection of company or CEO performance. If you willing to use easy to calculate but broken metrics I can supply a few for programmers. How about lines of code? This also ignores under performing executives getting big salaries and severance packages. No one is going to pay me millions if I get fired.
"And arguably, the fact that a few engineers can build WhatsApp and earn billions is an example of that in action"
I view employment at a startup like buying a lottery ticket. Someone is going to get a large payday but that doesn't mean they're better than someone that doesn't get one. Even with the possibility of a big payout your expected return is pretty low.
I think I stated the collusion argument badly so let me try again. If you're in charge of a major corporation and experiencing a talent shortage would you tell your HR department to exclude a large portion of the local candidate pool? That's what those companies did.
Re: The Myth of the Science and Engineering Shortage
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
If no one is doing it, perhaps it's worth trying?
Perhaps I have an invisible dragon in my garage. What do you think is more likely, that no one is doing it because it's highly effective or that no one is doing it because it causes problems?
The answer to that could very well be "Yes".
I've found that most practices that make for visionary, distinctive companies are both highly effective and cause large problems. For example, Google has a massive shared codebase, does promotion & performance reviews via peer feedback, and shares information very widely inside the company at the expense of being a black box externally. Fog Creek makes all salary data public within the company. Palantir, I've heard, pays all engineers the same (relatively low) salary but doubles down on perks and work environment. Apple under Steve Jobs let the CEO berate any employee over the slightest product detail. Facebook releases new software via IRC chatroom.
All of these practices cause major problems, but they also fix major problems. Moreover, they're distinctive. They draw a certain type of employee, one who's willing to give up convenience in some dimension to gain autonomy, or excellence, or collaboration. It's often better to be differentiated than good.
Re: The Myth of the Science and Engineering Shortage
#116Fundamentally, I don't accept that there is, in general, a shortage of "good people" in the USA. I responded earlier [1] to someone who thinks there is.
Instead of continuing to follow up with just that one person, I'd like to propose an interesting "experiment" for hiring managers:
Do an Ask HN, linking to a recent representative
job posting you haven't been able to fill
1) the job posting, of course
2) company name, location, salary range
3) are the usual requested perks applicable, e.g. flex time, work from home, etc?
4) what kind of resumes are you seeing? How many? What, in general, has been wrong with those people?
Then I'd like to see HN posters dissect the information. Let's find out if the requirements are realistic. Let's find out if the company's reputation is toxic.
Re: The Myth of the Science and Engineering Shortage
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
Computer Science
What are you doing now and where do you live? I'm just curious. I am studying CS right now.
I'm living in Portland, OR now, though I'm about to move to Canada. I graduated from a school in Memphis, TN. Right now I'm taking a little break, but for most of the last year I've been reading about different programming languages and frameworks, doing a part-time internship using Ruby on Rails, and basically developing my skill-set to (hopefully) make myself a more desirable candidate for entry-level positions.
If you're reading hacker news, you're already probably doing better on that front than I was during my entire undergrad. I'd highly recommend getting an internship and building a personal project before you graduate too, as I believe my failure to do both of those things (in addition to a sub-3.0 GPA) were the factors that have prevented me from getting a job thus far.
Re: The Myth of the Science and Engineering Shortage
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
Please state the salary you offer, the location of your company, whether or not you pay full relocation, and the skill set you are looking for.
We have engineers making up to $250k total comp most are in the $150-200 range, we have offices in LA, Palo alto, and NY, we pay relocation of some kind, and we want generalists that are really good.
It sounds like your comp is great - as in truly competitive.
That salary range would probably make you standout from the crowd. If only there were some way (short of interviewing and getting an offer) for a possible candidate to know that..
I see salary ranges advertised all the time in the New England area so its not impossible.
Like some else mentioned; when I don't see a salary range I assume it isn't great or maybe they don't want to piss off the current employees that are working for below market rate.
Re: The Myth of the Science and Engineering Shortage
#119Earlier quoted context omitted.
Perhaps I have an invisible dragon in my garage. What do you think is more likely, that no one is doing it because it's highly effective or that no one is doing it because it causes problems?
The answer to that could very well be "Yes". I've found that most practices that make for visionary, distinctive companies are both highly effective and cause large problems. For example, Google has a massive shared codebase, does promotion & performance reviews via peer feedback, and shares information very widely inside the company at the expense of being a black box externally. Fog Creek makes all salary data publ…
Could be yes and is likely to be yes are very different things. Since you mentioned fog creek, notice they don't publicly publish their salaries.
Re: The Myth of the Science and Engineering Shortage
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
We have engineers making up to $250k total comp most are in the $150-200 range, we have offices in LA, Palo alto, and NY, we pay relocation of some kind, and we want generalists that are really good.
It sounds like your comp is great - as in truly competitive. That salary range would probably make you standout from the crowd. If only there were some way (short of interviewing and getting an offer) for a possible candidate to know that.. I see salary ranges advertised all the time in the New England area so its not impossible. Like some else mentioned; when I don't see a salary range I assume it isn't great or may…
I can't change HR policy, so I can't publish it, but I bet if I did it would cause a lot of headaches. Very few people are worth the top end salary, and most aren't self aware enough to realize it.