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Update on Julie Horvath's Departure

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Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure

#111

Post by enobrev »

almightygod wrote: post #26

This whole incident is sad. It's incredibly sad for Julie, for everyone at GitHub, for the founders, and for the alleged "crazy" founder wife who was banned from a company she probably sacrificed a lot for

Sacrifice does not buy one a free pass to treat people like shit. Condescension is not an award. (otherwise I agree with your sentiment and post)

Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure

#112

Post by duncan_bayne »

MarkTee wrote: post #33
duncan_bayne wrote: post #3

Awesome response from GitHub. Professional response, apologises and thanks the complainant rather than being defensive ... I think their new HR hire in January is already paying dividends ;)

Not PR, HR (i.e Human Resources). In other words, someone who should have been working to clean up this mess months ago.

Indeed, but it takes time to clean up a culture (if it's at all possible). This response suggests that their HR hire is doing his or her job well, at least now.

Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure

#113

Post by hiddentao »

tatalegma wrote: post #62
meistro wrote: post #20

This is leadership. Executive leadership at other tech companies should take note.

To respond only after the issue was brought public? No, that is no leadership. It's the best possible response he could give under the present circumstances, but on the flipside, he had no choice but to make this statement. I wouldn't be surprised if it was crafted for him by a PR person or firm.

I'm guessing that at the time (whilst the issue was still internal) they didn't think what was happening was a big enough deal. As a result they're now having to perform damage control.

Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure

#116

Post by Throwadev »

att159 wrote: post #85

Who is the "relevant GitHub engineer"? The one Horvath rejected?

That makes total sense. Somehow I forgot about him, and assumed it was her partner. I was like "OK, i guess they have to boot everyone who was even remotely involved until they can sort it all out and decide on next steps."

But no, your guess makes a lot more sense.

Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure

#117

Post by [deleted] »

rodgerd wrote: post #60

It's good to see a straight-up apology, not a mealy-mouthed "I'm sorry if our engineer's sexual harrassment offended you" type response. Of course, it would have been better if Julie had felt like she could have taken this up while she still worked there and got something done at the time.

[deleted]

Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure

#118

Post by lstamour »

pekk wrote: post #49
leccine wrote: post #13

Well Julie's story stinks. Let me just quote the last thigs she wrote and work backwards from that. "Two women, one of whom I work with and adore, and a friend of hers were hula hooping to some music. I didn’t have a problem with this. What I did have a problem with is the line of men sitting on one bench facing the hoopers and gawking at them. It looked like something out of a strip club. When I brought this up to m…

Let's consider what it means for this GitHub hula hoop party to be "unsafe." What is the dangerous thing that Horvath thought would happen? Do we really consider the suggestion plausible that GitHub's allowance of hula-hooping-watching will result in a gang rape in its offices?

Is gang rape really only one step removed from hula hooping or is that the only meaning of "unsafe" behaviour you can think of? Having a safe work environment can simply mean being treated professionally and equally. I mean, sexual harassment has a wide scope from "she knew she wanted it," to "it was uncomfortable or rude," and unsafe should cover all of the above. Really, the unsafe refers to a perception that safety features aren't present -- in this case that there was no other avenue to report or discourage this behaviour before it became a cultural norm. Is it wrong or harmful? Maybe not physically, but obviously emotionally, to at least one person. This is why having a neutral second opinion and ... process, can sometimes be a good thing. At the very least, it provides distance to look at things more objectively.

Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure

#119

Post by jamesaguilar »

stfp wrote: post #65
atomaka wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not usually...ALWAYS. There is another side here. Github has just realized they have nothing to gain by defending.

Off topic, but there is not always "two sides". There is a tendency to try to frame and reduce everything to binary questions... but the world is just not binary.

To put it another way, there may be two sides (or N sides), but some sides' perspective are often more worthy than others. Not to Godwin the thread, but, yeah. Both sides' perspectives are not always equally valid. (I dutifully acknowledge that the offenses are not the same magnitude, and all the caveats that go with referencing The Big G.)

Re: Update on Julie Horvath's Departure

#120

Post by PhasmaFelis »

pekk wrote: post #31
almightygod wrote: post #26

This whole incident is sad. It's incredibly sad for Julie, for everyone at GitHub, for the founders, and for the alleged "crazy" founder wife who was banned from a company she probably sacrificed a lot for

I'm surprised nobody sees sexism in the way that the wife has been stigmatized.

> I'm surprised nobody sees sexism in the way that the wife has been stigmatized.

Y'know, I hope I'm wrong, but there's a good chance you're surprised because you don't know what sexism is. An awful lot of men seem to have this notion that "sexism" means "something happened to a woman that she didn't like." It doesn't. Sexism is prejudice or discrimination based on a person's sex or gender, if you'll forgive me quoting Wikipedia. Calling out a woman for doing something shitty is not sexist. Saying "well, what can you expect from a woman" would be.

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