Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why Super-Fast Internet Is Coming Super Slowly

online.wsj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 126 posts

Re: Why Super-Fast Internet Is Coming Super Slowly

#111

Post by saosebastiao »

brenschluss wrote: post #95
saosebastiao wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your use of statistics is meaningless because average density is meaningless. It suffers from the same resolution problem as the coastline paradox [1]. I'm an example of this: If you measure density by the block, I live in a density of 120,000 persons/km2, but if you measure density by the city, I live in a density of 1720 persons/km2, and if you measure density by the MSA, I live in a density of 168 persons/km2. I h…

Saying average density is meaningless is like saying, because of the coastline paradox, even a small island's coastline is the same length as a large continent's coastline -- they're both infinite!

Correct. However, if you can define a level of resolution to measure the coastline/density, then then it can be compared. Average density/coastline is meaningless without context.

Re: Why Super-Fast Internet Is Coming Super Slowly

#112

Post by foobarqux »

rayiner wrote: post #109
foobarqux wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US allegedly beats Sweden in average broadband speed which is a poor measure for most purposes. I don't think you will find any Swedes telling you that the US has better broadband. From the FCC: "The United States is 26th out of 32 countries in the 15-25 Mbps speed tier (advertised) with an average stand-alone broadband plan price of $56.50. The lowest advertised price for stand-alone services is in Slovakia at $…

Why do you rely on a study that uses advertised speed instead of actual speed like Akamai's? Akamai also has a category for 10 Mbps+ availability, and the U.S. ranks very well there too.

Because there aren't many international broadband studies that incorporate cost and I don't see any Mbps/cost breakdown in the Akamai study. The FCC report incorporates Ookla data (Speedtest.net) which uses actual broadband speed and costs submitted by users. It corroborates the conclusions of the FCC study.

With respect to availability: There is a world of difference between 1Gps@$1000/mth and 1Gps@$50/mth though both qualify as 1Gbps availability.

Finally >10Mbps is pretty broad bin today and fails to meaningfully differentiate "very" high speed services.

Re: Why Super-Fast Internet Is Coming Super Slowly

#113

Post by arg01 »

talmand wrote: post #64
praxeologist wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonsense. Leftists conflate "state capitalism", cronyism or corporatism with real, free-market capitalism. Internet monopolies like Comcast or TWC enjoy are state-granted monopolies, not "natural monopolies" (which have never existed).

Based on my own non-expert personal musings on the subject, I would say that natural monopolies can and do exist in capitalism. It's just that under normal circumstances they would be difficult to sustain over a certain period of time based on several factors. Without some mechanic (often political) in place to prevent a new form of competition or technological progression from developing in the market, then a natura…

But of course no one advocates capitalism as an actual philosophical goal, they advocate that it's the best way to distribute our limited resources to get the most out of them. So if you accept the existence of natural monopolies it's hard to defend that the inefficiencies of regulating a monopoly to better capture externalities aren't less than the inefficiencies of personal profit maximizing behavior by the private entity with the monopoly.

Re: Why Super-Fast Internet Is Coming Super Slowly

#114

Post by thatswrong0 »

Aloisius wrote: post #63
praxeologist wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonsense. Leftists conflate "state capitalism", cronyism or corporatism with real, free-market capitalism. Internet monopolies like Comcast or TWC enjoy are state-granted monopolies, not "natural monopolies" (which have never existed).

> not "natural monopolies" (which have never existed). Tell that to Standard Oil or The American Tobacco Company.

Do 10 minutes of research on Standard Oil. Not a great example.

Re: Why Super-Fast Internet Is Coming Super Slowly

#115

Post by Aloisius »

thatswrong0 wrote: post #114
Aloisius wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not "natural monopolies" (which have never existed). Tell that to Standard Oil or The American Tobacco Company.

Do 10 minutes of research on Standard Oil. Not a great example.

I suggest spending more than 10 minutes of research on it. Standard Oil is quite literally the textbook example of a natural monopoly.

Re: Why Super-Fast Internet Is Coming Super Slowly

#116

Post by reversi_online »

alexeisadeski3 wrote: post #106
brenschluss wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well perhaps this may be the case in some scenarios, but that doesn't mean that the internet can't be censored when internet infrastructure is private, either. p = internet is public infrastructure q = censorship for some (but not all) p -> q for some (but not all) ¬p -> q q -> irrelevant It's irrelevant to the question of fast internet. To reiterate, you're saying that censorship and fast internet are a package deal…

I'm saying that the political process which leads to things like gov't required fast internet may also lead to greater encroachment upon said internet. It's an interesting way of thinking of things. Yesterday I listened to a discussion comparing the less regulated and more stable banking system of Canada to the heavily regulated and crash prone US banking system. Everyone in the US says that they want Canada's bankin…

Canada's banks were still under the equivalent of Glass-Steagall restrictions at the time, and the government had kept them on a very short leash in many other respects. Your analysis is 180 degrees removed fom reality.

I don't know where the heck you're getting the nonsense about the Queen from either, the Canadian Prime Minister selects senators at his own discretion and the royal involvment in the process is just ceremonial.

Re: Why Super-Fast Internet Is Coming Super Slowly

#117

Post by reversi_online »

res0nat0r wrote: post #103
reversi_online wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I must say your dichotomy between lobbying and political priorities is positively Martian. And I haven't noticed the U.S. public rallying in horrified opposition to faster internet speeds in a big way. Or at all, really.

They haven't been rallying in support of it either.

You attributed the slow broadband rollout to public hostility, not public indifference.

Re: Why Super-Fast Internet Is Coming Super Slowly

#118

Post by coldtea »

kbolino wrote: post #99
coldtea wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The actual nonsense is the existance of the mythical " real, free-market capitalism", that nobody has ever seen in practice. The "free market" that does exist is based on subsidies, bailouts, state protection, monopolies, a huge army, bullying, and resource grabbing (and past 300+ years of colonialism). Heck, the "free market" is even more mythical than the laughable "really existing socialism".

The free market does not exist because the government stands in its way. To then go on to chide free market advocates for actions they do not support is disingenuous at best. Businessmen are not interested in ideology, if they can use the government as a cudgel against their opponents, or a crutch to sustain them in hard times, they will. Every time the government's power over the economy has been expanded, advocates…

>The free market does not exist because the government stands in its way

So people should quit talking about it as it existed.

Not to mention that the same could (and WAS) said for communism ("it didn't exist because party bureucrats got in the way").

>You can't break my spine and then blame me for being paralyzed.

No, but I can point out that the unicorn pony you frequently talk about doesn't exist and never did in human history.

Re: Why Super-Fast Internet Is Coming Super Slowly

#119

Post by res0nat0r »

reversi_online wrote: post #117
res0nat0r wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They haven't been rallying in support of it either.

You attributed the slow broadband rollout to public hostility, not public indifference.

Where did I say the public was hostile to faster Internet? The public is for it, just that this group is too small for them to be relevant yet.

Re: Why Super-Fast Internet Is Coming Super Slowly

#120

Post by alexeisadeski3 »

reversi_online wrote: post #116
alexeisadeski3 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm saying that the political process which leads to things like gov't required fast internet may also lead to greater encroachment upon said internet. It's an interesting way of thinking of things. Yesterday I listened to a discussion comparing the less regulated and more stable banking system of Canada to the heavily regulated and crash prone US banking system. Everyone in the US says that they want Canada's bankin…

Canada's banks were still under the equivalent of Glass-Steagall restrictions at the time, and the government had kept them on a very short leash in many other respects. Your analysis is 180 degrees removed fom reality. I don't know where the heck you're getting the nonsense about the Queen from either, the Canadian Prime Minister selects senators at his own discretion and the royal involvment in the process is just…

Time for you to crack open our nation's history books!
Post reply on HN