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The anonymity I know

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Re: The anonymity I know

#111

Post by pjc50 »

Ardren wrote: post #108
pamelafox wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My only experience on 4chan was due to a Google Alert notifying me that I was the subject of a thread on /d/. That thread was the highest density collection of insults about me that I'd ever seen on the net, and sadly, I'm not yet thick-skinned enough to entirely ignore the "comments on the internet." When I see things like that, or comments on youtube videos of my talks, I sometimes think "maybe I should retreat and…

> I was the subject of a thread on /d/ Are you sure that was /d/ and not /prog/? They are a little different in content.

Please tell me how context makes a difference to vitriolic abuse of an outsider.

Re: The anonymity I know

#112

Post by pjc50 »

pervycreeper wrote: post #98
pamelafox wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My only experience on 4chan was due to a Google Alert notifying me that I was the subject of a thread on /d/. That thread was the highest density collection of insults about me that I'd ever seen on the net, and sadly, I'm not yet thick-skinned enough to entirely ignore the "comments on the internet." When I see things like that, or comments on youtube videos of my talks, I sometimes think "maybe I should retreat and…

>it sure would be nice if they realized that everyone's a person I hope you realize that anonymous comments are also (usually) written by people, and the points of view they express are also worthy of consideration and respect. Making comments which lack a connection to a person's real life identity enables the commenter to use an honest and direct tone, without resorting to passive-aggressive innuendo. Also, people…

No, there is not an implicit social contract in becoming a public figure, especially for those people who become public figures without their intent or consent (e.g "Star Wars Kid").

Also, if this was limited to criticizing ideas, it might be more reasonable. It isn't. For example, Caroline Crialdo-Perez getting rape threats on twitter for saying it would be a good idea to have a woman on a banknote.

To turn your phrase around, there is an implicit social contract in having a platform for disseminating ideas that you not use it for threats, intimidation, abuse or causing emotional distress.

Re: The anonymity I know

#113

Post by pjc50 »

sneak wrote: post #54
afreak wrote: post #6

I say this with hesitation but I believe that Snapchat, with all of its idiotic flaws is an indication of how the future of social networking platforms will be. It demonstrates that you can have a service where your friends are known but the content is seemingly temporary, allowing for some semblance of control. I don't think that Snapchat is the future, but it does make me think that the ideas around it are what wil…

> I say this with hesitation but I believe that Snapchat, with all of its idiotic flaws is an indication of how the future of social networking platforms will be. Snapchat only really delivers on its promise because of the kind of user-hostile DRM Stallman and his ilk have been screaming warnings about for years. Its children and derivatives cannot reasonably exist in a future in which end users have real control ove…

It's interesting that this is a case where DRM transfers power from one user to another: from recipient to sender. The only other case I've come across where this kind of transfer is accepted as beneficial is anti-cheat systems in games.

Re: The anonymity I know

#114

Post by seabee »

kybernetikos wrote: post #89
ChuckMcM wrote: post #65

Great article moot, and well said. What is particularly intriguing to me on this (hackernews) and 4chan has been how so many people conflate anonymity with "non-identity", which is absolutely not the same. Karma systems attach value to a 'handle' which is its own form of identity. So I can create an account on a forum as xyz123 and say what ever I want, but if the speech is of low value to the community I'll get "dow…

> so many people conflate anonymity with "non-identity", which is absolutely not the same. Quite a few people have mentioned this in passing, but I think it's actually the central point. What you're called has no relationship to meanness at all. Whether your actions can have consequences for you is what has a relationship to meanness. This holds true in real life too. The Stanford Prison experiment degenerated becaus…

> Imagine a forum [...] but you have to log into it with a password and passwords cost $50 to acquire and for sufficiently bad behaviour they can be revoked

You don't have to imagine it, take a look at the Something Awful forums. People still get banned but the discourse is better, from my limited experience.

Re: The anonymity I know

#115

Post by xentronium »

prawn wrote: post #101
pervycreeper wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it sure would be nice if they realized that everyone's a person I hope you realize that anonymous comments are also (usually) written by people, and the points of view they express are also worthy of consideration and respect. Making comments which lack a connection to a person's real life identity enables the commenter to use an honest and direct tone, without resorting to passive-aggressive innuendo. Also, people…

Are the ideas being attacked or the individual in this case? Many people simply don't know how to respond to something they dislike or feel threatened by and anonymity means they don't even have to consider a valid argument in their aggression. Sometimes race or gender or other feeling of competition are enough to make people feel threatened - not much relating to social contract or "points of view worthy of consider…

> they don't even have to consider a valid argument in their aggression

Yep. There's nothing you can do about anonymous hate, other than shrug and move on.

Re: The anonymity I know

#116

Post by [deleted] »

pjc50 wrote: post #111
Ardren wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was the subject of a thread on /d/ Are you sure that was /d/ and not /prog/? They are a little different in content.

Please tell me how context makes a difference to vitriolic abuse of an outsider.

[deleted]

Re: The anonymity I know

#117

Post by zyx321 »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #65

Great article moot, and well said. What is particularly intriguing to me on this (hackernews) and 4chan has been how so many people conflate anonymity with "non-identity", which is absolutely not the same. Karma systems attach value to a 'handle' which is its own form of identity. So I can create an account on a forum as xyz123 and say what ever I want, but if the speech is of low value to the community I'll get "dow…

Well, I'd call that pseudonymity. Anonymity to me is having no name at all. As long as there are persistent identifiers and/or karma, you are discouraged from speaking freely.

Take for example the 2010/2011 My Little Pony craze. Could you imagine young men in their mid-teens to early twenties generating hype among their peers for a show targeted primarily at little girls with literally nothing to go on except the name of the executive producer, the title logo, and two pieces of concept art?

On a karma-driven pseudonym system like Reddit, most would be too embarrassed and/or afraid of getting downmodded to hell.

Pseudonym systems, especially Karma-based ones, are a lot closer to real names than to anonymity.

Re: The anonymity I know

#118

Post by jordigh »

steven2012 wrote: post #46

reddit has some of the most helpful, positive and encouraging communities on the Internet. It really depends on the tone that each particular app/forum cultivates. Sure, there are assholes but for the most part, the communities created in some subreddits are simply fantastic. And their upvoting/downvoting system is far superior to anything, including HN and slashdot, and really helps clean up the noise. Had I never u…

I have recently quit using reddit because I got tired of the bickering, particularly in the more mainstream subreddits. The smaller subreddits seem fine. While there is also some bickering in HN, it seems to me to be much more moderated.

It seems like once a community grows large enough, so do its number of assholes, but the asshole count must be absolute, not relative, since it just takes a few to ruin the fun for everyone. This is why HN seems to me less bickery than reddit right now, because it's more focussed on just one niche.

What really did it for me was the pack rape mentality that parts of reddit exhibit. I want nothing to do with a website that allows this:

http://betabeat.com/2012/08/reddit-watches-with-glee-as-camg...

Re: The anonymity I know

#119

Post by chazu »

Torgo wrote: post #91
polemic wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding your anecdote: IMO it works for 4chan because the entire system is built around anonymity and a troll culture. If every message on 4chan is a trolling opportunity but every user is anonymous, trolling looses a lot of it's 'fun'. You get no notoriety, the target is primed for it already and is protected by their own anonymity. Trolling on 4chan has been elevated to such an art-form that it takes more energy…

Feminists and friends fling just as much shit as anybody else on Twitter. During the Piers Morgan Twitter flamefest, you should have seen some of the hatred thrown his way. In particular I remember the person who wished him to get "dick cancer." I posted a link one time to an article critical of the DailyKos response to a particular Ted Rall cartoon, and a social justice warrior flamed the shit out of me for _weeks_…

I can corroborate this. I follow a few SJWs on twitter and the vitriol they post is often very surprisingly potent. I actually think that pound for pound, threads on 4chan on topics like race or gender politics end up being better conversations because the anonymity takes away the need for people to demonstrate their status as provocateurs.

Re: The anonymity I know

#120

Post by br78 »

chazu wrote: post #119
Torgo wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Feminists and friends fling just as much shit as anybody else on Twitter. During the Piers Morgan Twitter flamefest, you should have seen some of the hatred thrown his way. In particular I remember the person who wished him to get "dick cancer." I posted a link one time to an article critical of the DailyKos response to a particular Ted Rall cartoon, and a social justice warrior flamed the shit out of me for _weeks_…

I can corroborate this. I follow a few SJWs on twitter and the vitriol they post is often very surprisingly potent. I actually think that pound for pound, threads on 4chan on topics like race or gender politics end up being better conversations because the anonymity takes away the need for people to demonstrate their status as provocateurs.

>I actually think that pound for pound, threads on 4chan on topics like race or gender politics end up being better conversations

I love anonymous conversation but this sentence makes me think you've not tried to debate these things on 4chan too often.

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