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Linda Liukas' Programming book for Children has Huge First Day on Kickstarter

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Re: Linda Liukas' Programming book for Children has Huge First Day on Kickstarter

#111

Post by clark-kent »

callmeed wrote: post #62

The comments on this thread make me want to quit HN for good. I don't know Linda but I volunteered at RailsGirls in SF this past weekend. It was a wonderful experience and I'm hoping to organize one here in my area. I've got 4 kids (3 girls, 1 boy) and we do everything from LEGOs to making movies to programming to SnapCircuits to building robots. I'm excited about this book. Even if I wasn't, I honestly can't imagine…

I believe the critiques are just a more vocal minority, most of us that think this is awesome, will simply upvote the topic without leaving a comment. This is even more common on HN where one-line comments like +1, awesome, great is frowned on.

Re: Linda Liukas' Programming book for Children has Huge First Day on Kickstarter

#112

Post by jcoder »

deveac wrote: post #105
ultimatedelman wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this comment is asinine. please leave HN.

I believe the point he was making was essentially that because this book eschews traditional stereotypes and cultural messaging about disciplines like science and math being the purview of males, not only do girls benefit, but boys do as well by virtue of the fact that the values they are being taught are less selectively biased. Not only do young women win (obvious), but young men do as well as they are less likely…

Yes I agree with that. Sorry for not taking the time to make a coherent argument :)

Re: Linda Liukas' Programming book for Children has Huge First Day on Kickstarter

#113

Post by Confusion »

MartinCron wrote: post #107
Confusion wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So downvote and move on. You're not adding anything on topic with this meta comment and you could have foreseen it would hijack the top spot. To add insult to injury, you're being drama-royalty: just because a few nobodies level unfounded criticism at her is not reason to "quit HN for good". Or you would've quit long ago. And instead of rubbing their face in their dumbness by explaining to them how wrong their critic…

There's nothing wrong with voicing concern about the state of a community that you care about.

There is definitely something wrong with doing that with a top-level comment. It distracts from the actual topic. You should only do that if you have a very good reason, such as noting the same behavior multiple times on multiple topics.

You should certainly not do it within two hours after the article was posted, to allow time for selfcorrection. That is the point of the voting system.

There is also something wrong with doing it in an appeal-to-emotion fashion, threatening how this is 'almost making you leave'. You should clearly address the problem at hand, citing examples and explaining the problem, instead of hiding the actual problem that the fuss is about in the third paragraph.

Too little content, too much drama.

Re: Linda Liukas' Programming book for Children has Huge First Day on Kickstarter

#114

Post by ahuth »

fidotron wrote: post #19

Cynic hat on . . . I'm not sure I get this. Looks like an effort to promote an illustrator more than actually achieve the stated aims. The reasoning is simple: Alan Kay and others have repeatedly demonstrated kids have a far greater aptitude for this stuff than is generally accepted. The packaging in this manner isn't the problem, the problem is the programming environments around today don't tend to do anything the…

From my experience (as a former 8 year old who had to do logo), this could be a great way to get kids to think of programming/computers as something they should learn more about.

Most 8 year olds are looking at logo (or whatever) and being turned off from it.

Re: Linda Liukas' Programming book for Children has Huge First Day on Kickstarter

#115

Post by shangxiao »

jorgem wrote: post #103
rimantas wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how do you interpret "diversity" then? That we need more kids in industry?

Diversity could be: Income, Country of Origin, Sex, Sexual preference, Ethnicity... much more. It's a broad term.

Of course. However in IT discussions, especially on HN, what do you think it gets interpreted as?

Re: Linda Liukas' Programming book for Children has Huge First Day on Kickstarter

#116

Post by Confusion »

fit2rule wrote: post #16

Want to know how to teach kids to use computers? Give them an 8-bit machine from the 80's, and all the books for the thing that you can find. My kids have an old 8-bit machine .. and they love the thing. They can type in their own BASIC programs from tons of sources, or load up a hundred games and other educational apps from a disk that I know won't contain anything weird or offensive .. on a machine with no access t…

Great that it worked for you. Doesn't mean it will work for others.

Example: me. I had access to a computer, but couldn't comprehend the (foreign) lingo well enough to find the correct books in the (vast) library. My parents weren't into technology and couldn't help me. Had they understood the potential and had they given a few nudges, I would have started at 8 what I now started at 20. Many kids need guidance and encouragement.

Re: Linda Liukas' Programming book for Children has Huge First Day on Kickstarter

#117

Post by ahuth »

vezzy-fnord wrote: post #36

I think children will be better off reading _why's (poignant) guide instead, as it will teach them both the basics of common programming and give them a primer in avant-garde literature. That or stop treating kids like kids, give them some standard and classic books, bootstrap an environment and let them dive in.

Not sure about everyone else here, but I'm definitely not smart enough to learn anything about programming from _why.

_why's (poignant) guide is awesome and entertaining... but I'm not learning programming from it.

Re: Linda Liukas' Programming book for Children has Huge First Day on Kickstarter

#118

Post by Confusion »

callmeed wrote: post #110
Confusion wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So downvote and move on. You're not adding anything on topic with this meta comment and you could have foreseen it would hijack the top spot. To add insult to injury, you're being drama-royalty: just because a few nobodies level unfounded criticism at her is not reason to "quit HN for good". Or you would've quit long ago. And instead of rubbing their face in their dumbness by explaining to them how wrong their critic…

You extrapolated my comment quite a bit. "Doing something" and "complaining" are not mutually exclusive–nor was my complaint about "how annoying the world is". EDIT: wanted to also add I had no intention/foresight of "hijacking" the top spot. Most of my HN comments get lost in the ether–which I'm perfectly fine with.

Do you honestly think any of the commenters you are complaining about read your comment and thought "I guess he's talking about me and he's right"?

Re: Linda Liukas' Programming book for Children has Huge First Day on Kickstarter

#119

Post by deveac »

enra wrote: post #93

Seems like lot of comments have concerns with the programming part, so here is my view why indirect approaches can be also important: When we started Rails Girls with Linda, we saw that there were plenty of programming workshops, books and education available. We didn't want to create one more. Instead we focused on creating easy, one-day workshop to get you to try and see what programming and technology is about, wh…

Thanks for this reply.

It seems a lot of "problem solvers" in this thread couldn't quite imagine the problem you might be addressing, let alone the possibilities of the solution you chose.

Edit: Looks really promising btw. Best of luck moving forward.

Re: Linda Liukas' Programming book for Children has Huge First Day on Kickstarter

#120

Post by Confusion »

fidotron wrote: post #19

Cynic hat on . . . I'm not sure I get this. Looks like an effort to promote an illustrator more than actually achieve the stated aims. The reasoning is simple: Alan Kay and others have repeatedly demonstrated kids have a far greater aptitude for this stuff than is generally accepted. The packaging in this manner isn't the problem, the problem is the programming environments around today don't tend to do anything the…

I don't think that reasoning is simple: I don't agree that what you assert has actually been demonstrated. There is no agreed-upon way in which you can teach kids programming. Otherwise: citation needed.

  Looks like an effort to promote an illustrator more [..]
How about being a bit more generous as to someone's motives? Why not "achieving the stated aims, with the added benefit if promoting an illustrator?". Suppose I like painting and birdwatching. Now I do a kickstarter for a birdwatcher's guide with paintings of birds. I'm honestly excited about birdwatching and believe a book with painted birds will make it more enjoyable for many people. As I happen to paint myself and I think my quirky way of painting birds will add to the enjoyment, I decide to do the paintings myself. Am I promoting my own paintings? Of course! Is my motivation otherwise completely honest? Of course!
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