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Coinbase Crosses 650,000 Users

blog.coinbase.com

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Re: Coinbase Crosses 650,000 Users

#111

Post by adrianwaj »

RockyMcNuts wrote: post #101
adrianwaj wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not thinking too deeply. I think a company could use an intra-blockchain to run a micro-economy within it. Transactions take place that enable it to function. Also, there is an interface between intra and public blockchains. If your department wants pens, it must buy it internally from the Supplies department. At some point Supplies converts its intracoins to public cash or coins (with management approval^) to…

if you're going to have an intra-company economy with micro-transactions, it's not clear why those transactions are more beneficial than market transactions with trusted external suppliers. an important and possibly the principal reason for forming companies is to avoid the transaction costs of coordinating numerous independent agents through a market economy. so, when transaction costs decline, firms don't set up in…

Yes I know about this. It's a good question of economics meets information systems. But I do know in larger companies, getting management approval of certain purchases can take a really long time. I have a feeling that with intrachains, management will have more information on hand to determine if and when they can approve of purchases (and they can also track finances better overall.) Also, staff can have a better idea if making such a purchase request is feasible to the company. So firms can be larger, and operate with less oversight... that'd be the goal. I think there are issues of transparency and confidentiality, though, it may be risky for everyone at a firm to know everything happening in the blockchain and a firm's microeconomy in general.. especially if the blockchain is widely used: it could cause political issues, tax issues... other problems.

Re: Coinbase Crosses 650,000 Users

#112

Post by maxerickson »

adrianwaj wrote: post #109
maxerickson wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be insane for employees to accept payment in scrip without a promise of a fixed exchange rate. Even with such a promise it would not be especially sensible (because if the company implodes you lose your job and some of your savings...). (I mean sure, you could trust that management with their total control of the scrip would not manipulate it to the advantage of management, but good luck with that)

I don't want to get into a full debate over the intricacies of the idea, (problems can be ironed out) ...but you could have part employee payment in fiat, part in public cryptocoin, part intracoin... it's up to the employee. But if we want to see public cryptocoins widely used, having it interface with private chains seems like a prerequisite, or at least a good start. It's really an information systems topic: techni…

Yeah, well, I'm agnostic about public crytocoins being widely used. I'm definitely opposed to encouraging people to taking payment in what is essentially a company scrip.

Setting all that aside, I bet one big problem would be compliance with Sarbanes–Oxley.

Re: Coinbase Crosses 650,000 Users

#113

Post by adrianwaj »

maxerickson wrote: post #112
adrianwaj wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to get into a full debate over the intricacies of the idea, (problems can be ironed out) ...but you could have part employee payment in fiat, part in public cryptocoin, part intracoin... it's up to the employee. But if we want to see public cryptocoins widely used, having it interface with private chains seems like a prerequisite, or at least a good start. It's really an information systems topic: techni…

Yeah, well, I'm agnostic about public crytocoins being widely used. I'm definitely opposed to encouraging people to taking payment in what is essentially a company scrip. Setting all that aside, I bet one big problem would be compliance with Sarbanes–Oxley.

Don't know enough about SO but clarified my overall idea here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6934281

Re: Coinbase Crosses 650,000 Users

#114

Post by WoodenChair »

dubfan wrote: post #87
WoodenChair wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's medicine if it makes you better. It's a currency if you can exchange it for goods and services.

What kind of currency fluctuates in value by +/- 20% in one day? What kind of currency is inherently deflationary?

Ummm tons of currency have dealt with ridiculous inflation. Go to Africa, go to 1920s Germany - their are examples where currency fluctuated 100s% a day. It doesn't mean it's nota currency. Again the problem with a lot of the discussion here is that many people simply don't understand the definition of a currency. A currency is not defined by how stable it is.

Re: Coinbase Crosses 650,000 Users

#115

Post by waps »

sillysaurus2 wrote: post #102
venus wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough. That does sound pretty annoying, I'd probably be pissed off myself! Anyway, your later comments put your original comment into better perspective, so thanks for replying.

Ah, sorry I wasn't very clear. =)

I probably missed something obvious here. But what happens if you mistype a bitcoin address (or worse : someone intercepts your mail and gives a different address).

Re: Coinbase Crosses 650,000 Users

#116

Post by RockyMcNuts »

adrianwaj wrote: post #111
RockyMcNuts wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you're going to have an intra-company economy with micro-transactions, it's not clear why those transactions are more beneficial than market transactions with trusted external suppliers. an important and possibly the principal reason for forming companies is to avoid the transaction costs of coordinating numerous independent agents through a market economy. so, when transaction costs decline, firms don't set up in…

Yes I know about this. It's a good question of economics meets information systems. But I do know in larger companies, getting management approval of certain purchases can take a really long time. I have a feeling that with intrachains, management will have more information on hand to determine if and when they can approve of purchases (and they can also track finances better overall.) Also, staff can have a better i…

Maybe I don't understand what you're suggesting. If you view Bitcoin as a currency without a central authority, it's an innovation. But a company would have a central authority, also has the ability to create any kind of financial controls, also the ability to create stock, and different kinds of marketable financial securities. So, a blockchain is just a different, possibly more convenient API than the books and records of the firm, and the stock transfer agent.

Re: Coinbase Crosses 650,000 Users

#117

Post by adrianwaj »

RockyMcNuts wrote: post #116
adrianwaj wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I know about this. It's a good question of economics meets information systems. But I do know in larger companies, getting management approval of certain purchases can take a really long time. I have a feeling that with intrachains, management will have more information on hand to determine if and when they can approve of purchases (and they can also track finances better overall.) Also, staff can have a better i…

Maybe I don't understand what you're suggesting. If you view Bitcoin as a currency without a central authority, it's an innovation. But a company would have a central authority, also has the ability to create any kind of financial controls, also the ability to create stock, and different kinds of marketable financial securities. So, a blockchain is just a different, possibly more convenient API than the books and rec…

I am still thinking through the idea, but in newer comments https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6935184 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6934281 I've suggested firms run a blockchain hidden from staff for departments to purchase factors-of-production, and then the underlying coins can be sold to the public as a way to raise capital. So I am thinking that a firm could run an intranet where departments and people get coins from management and also earn intracoins, but management can then come in and sell the underlying coins on some special exchange. There's also an intracoin/fiat/btc/ltc exchange tied into this intranet site.

I think there's a startup in this:

"reorganize your firm around your own virtual currency which you can then sell on our specialized exchange to raise further capital."

I should really clarify all this in a "tech vision" blog post. It could really be the next big thing, especially if a single (or hub) of firms, its customers and investors can come together around a single virtual currency.

Re: Coinbase Crosses 650,000 Users

#118

Post by zanny »

ryanhuff wrote: post #82
wdewind wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok educate me, because I really don't know (my grandmothers both lived in the US): what's wrong with Western Union or PayPal for this purpose? In many ways this simply moves the problem (overall complication) from a private sector solution much closer to a government solution because it means exchanging bitcoin for real currency will be intensely regulated and have its own fees associated with it. And maybe someday b…

@jnbiche, do you think that most "grandmas" have the ability to securely manage a bitcoin wallet? Based on all the reports of people losing bitcoins, and difficulty with redeeming from places like Mt.Gox in a timely manner, it appears easier to herd cats than to keep bitcoins both liquid and secure. I bet most grandmas would gladly pay the $20 service fee that you cited than to be subject to these risks.

Online wallets like coinbase solve this problem fairly well. Having to send money via addresses is no different than CC numbers.

Re: Coinbase Crosses 650,000 Users

#119

Post by RockyMcNuts »

adrianwaj wrote: post #117
RockyMcNuts wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I don't understand what you're suggesting. If you view Bitcoin as a currency without a central authority, it's an innovation. But a company would have a central authority, also has the ability to create any kind of financial controls, also the ability to create stock, and different kinds of marketable financial securities. So, a blockchain is just a different, possibly more convenient API than the books and rec…

I am still thinking through the idea, but in newer comments https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6935184 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6934281 I've suggested firms run a blockchain hidden from staff for departments to purchase factors-of-production, and then the underlying coins can be sold to the public as a way to raise capital. So I am thinking that a firm could run an intranet where departments and people…

They already have a 'virtual currency' they can sell on an organized exchange. It's called stock. You're going to have to work on your value prop. I fail to see any advantage vs. internal accounting systems, national currencies, existing stock exchanges and financial markets.

Re: Coinbase Crosses 650,000 Users

#120

Post by adrianwaj »

RockyMcNuts wrote: post #119
adrianwaj wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am still thinking through the idea, but in newer comments https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6935184 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6934281 I've suggested firms run a blockchain hidden from staff for departments to purchase factors-of-production, and then the underlying coins can be sold to the public as a way to raise capital. So I am thinking that a firm could run an intranet where departments and people…

They already have a 'virtual currency' they can sell on an organized exchange. It's called stock. You're going to have to work on your value prop. I fail to see any advantage vs. internal accounting systems, national currencies, existing stock exchanges and financial markets.

Actually, getting company stock from a company in the form of a cryptocoin could be a really elegant idea. The key is having a system that allows holders of stockcoins to claim a dividend payment in the form of the delivery of some other cryptocoin. So turning a blockchain into a stockpool could lead to some really interesting use cases. I think in China bitcoins are regarded as an asset and not a currency. Stockcoins expands on this notion. Thanks for bringing it my attention. This might be the next big thing I was thinking of.. I was just mistaken in wanting the stockcoins to be used within the company for internal commerce: I don't think that's wholly necessary, although intracoins are another interesting idea, they don't necessarily need to double up as stockcoins.

The key is having one blockchain with multiple stockcoins from multiple firms, but I don't think that's possible. It'd have to be 1 blockchain, 1 company, multiple stockcoins. Stockcoinmarket.com .. the future of equity, where companies go to get (and payout) cryptocoins for their stockcoins.

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