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NSA Coworker Remembers Edward Snowden: "A Genius Among Geniuses"

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Re: NSA Coworker Remembers Edward Snowden: "A Genius Among Geniuses"

#111

Post by sliverstorm »

mattlutze wrote: post #62
SkyMarshal wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the ad hominem fallacy - shoot the messenger, discredit the message by discrediting the messenger even though the two have no logical relation. It's a testament to our educational system that so many people fall for it. Though part of it, I'm sure, is that it simply gives many people a rationale for believing what they already want to believe.

The problem, though, is exactly what fidotron describes: without independent validation, we must trust the credibility of the source of a leak, for that leaked information to be considered valid. If Snowden were a character if ill-repute or questionable morality (outside the question of the morality of leaking intelligence secrets to foreign countries), it requires that you question whether any of the leaked informat…

Even if the information can be verified, there can still be questions of things like lies by omission, so knowing if the leaker has an undisclosed agenda can still be valuable.

Re: NSA Coworker Remembers Edward Snowden: "A Genius Among Geniuses"

#112

Post by JonSkeptic »

nabla9 wrote: post #98
JonSkeptic wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Correct me if I'm wrong You are and it would take a lot to correct that statement. I'd start at the timeline: http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/multimedia/timeline-ed... Most of what Snowden revealed did not relate to domestic spying overreach. Hell, he wasn't even in China for a week before he revealed NSA programs that spy on the Chinese. Snowden has done more damage to his cause than the government ever could…

Please provide exact document where he reveals documents about spying China, Russia etc. that are not linked to domestic spying. >At this point, he is a spy from every angle you look at it. Remember that not even U.S. government is not charging him from being a spy.

If you click on the timeline link provided, it pulls up links to the original publications that broke the story. If you were interested in facts, you could read them yourself.

Also, if he is not a spy and is not being charged as one, then he should return to the US. The fact that he can't and won't speaks volumes about his character and his intentions.

Re: NSA Coworker Remembers Edward Snowden: "A Genius Among Geniuses"

#113

Post by sliverstorm »

RyanMcGreal wrote: post #105
lukev wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the fact that he leaked a lot of details about NSA surveillance of foreign governments diminishes his moral high ground. That is the stated mission of the NSA and while the details are highly classified, everyone knows that they're doing it and agrees it should be done as a matter of policy. Embedding himself in the NSA specifically to find the details regarding these activities and release them looks more li…

I'm appalled that so many Americans who are outraged about their government's mass surveillance of Americans simultaneously seem to think it's acceptable for the US government to conduct mass surveillance on the citizens of other countries.

The US doesn't govern non-citizens. Most people don't see why people who do not pay taxes, obey US laws, etc have to be treated with all the perks of US citizens. Recall a feudal model, where a lord governs his people and protects them, but is not generally obligated to extend his protection to non-subjects.

It's not a belief that foreigners have no rights, but more like foreigners have their own government to watch out for them.

I don't really know which I personally believe, just sharing information.

Re: NSA Coworker Remembers Edward Snowden: "A Genius Among Geniuses"

#114

Post by sliverstorm »

mowfask wrote: post #104
fidotron wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that speaks more about the naivety and agendas of the journalists he leaked to than about himself. Given the apparent quantity of documents it seems unlikely he'd have had the chance to prefilter them. Anyone remotely surprised the NSA were spying on foreign governments (including allies) is basically an idiot.

So allied governments are basically idiots for not thinking the USA would spy on them? That would mean they should have put into place institutions protecting them from said spying. Which would be taking (defensive) military action because of the actions of an allied government. Now what kind of alliance is that?!

No, if it's anything like the Cold War, everybody is spying on everybody else, and everybody knows they are being spied on. They just kick up a fuss in the news when they happen upon a piece of proof, to use in the PR battle.

Re: NSA Coworker Remembers Edward Snowden: "A Genius Among Geniuses"

#115

Post by sliverstorm »

herbig wrote: post #56

I like how they say he "cheated" on the entrance exam to the NSA by stealing the questions and answers from their servers, as if that doesn't just make him more qualified for the job..

as if that doesn't just make him more qualified for the job

Maybe. Maybe not. Do we want the NSA to be rule-breaking cowboys that get the job done, or do we want them to have a rigid code of ethics?

I honestly don't know. Rigid ethics impair their effectiveness; cowboyism gives us what we have now.

Re: NSA Coworker Remembers Edward Snowden: "A Genius Among Geniuses"

#116

Post by vidarh »

podperson wrote: post #28
Edmond wrote: post #3

Nothing in that piece to suggest Snowden was a "A Genius Among Geniuses"...on what basis does his genius rest? AFAIK there is no record of Snowden doing any kind of work out there that'll suggest he knew anything about computing security. It seems people have forgotten that there are a ton of freely available computer security tools out there that any body can take and do a lot of damage with.

He could configure sharepoint AND backup systems. May not seem like much but in a federal government department that's like being Jesus and, I don't know, Buddha at the same time.

Frankly, someone who knows how to wield Sharepoint qualifies more as a Marquis de Sade to me.

Re: NSA Coworker Remembers Edward Snowden: "A Genius Among Geniuses"

#117

Post by mowfask »

sliverstorm wrote: post #114
mowfask wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So allied governments are basically idiots for not thinking the USA would spy on them? That would mean they should have put into place institutions protecting them from said spying. Which would be taking (defensive) military action because of the actions of an allied government. Now what kind of alliance is that?!

No, if it's anything like the Cold War, everybody is spying on everybody else, and everybody knows they are being spied on. They just kick up a fuss in the news when they happen upon a piece of proof , to use in the PR battle.

Looks like I totally missed the parallel to the Cold War, could you elaborate?

Re: NSA Coworker Remembers Edward Snowden: "A Genius Among Geniuses"

#118

Post by brown9-2 »

jeswin wrote: post #50
lukev wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the fact that he leaked a lot of details about NSA surveillance of foreign governments diminishes his moral high ground. That is the stated mission of the NSA and while the details are highly classified, everyone knows that they're doing it and agrees it should be done as a matter of policy. Embedding himself in the NSA specifically to find the details regarding these activities and release them looks more li…

I'm all for whistleblowing on how the NSA is abusing its powers to spy on US citizens, and I think it's extremely important that he did so. I really wish he'd constrained himself to that. I can't believe you're saying this. Is your judgement so clouded by patriotism that you somehow think other people have no right to their privacy? Let me explain the consequences of what you are suggesting here, apart from the obvio…

If you follow this sort of belief to it's logical conclusion, then why should we have any sort of intelligence agency?

Re: NSA Coworker Remembers Edward Snowden: "A Genius Among Geniuses"

#119

Post by dragonwriter »

sliverstorm wrote: post #115
herbig wrote: post #56

I like how they say he "cheated" on the entrance exam to the NSA by stealing the questions and answers from their servers, as if that doesn't just make him more qualified for the job..

as if that doesn't just make him more qualified for the job Maybe. Maybe not. Do we want the NSA to be rule-breaking cowboys that get the job done, or do we want them to have a rigid code of ethics? I honestly don't know. Rigid ethics impair their effectiveness; cowboyism gives us what we have now.

> Rigid ethics impair their effectiveness

Does it? How, specifically?

> cowboyism gives us what we have now.

Which also impairs effectiveness at doing anything that is legitimate role of any component of the US government, which necessary includes adhering to rather than subverting the Constitution of the United States.

Re: NSA Coworker Remembers Edward Snowden: "A Genius Among Geniuses"

#120

Post by simoncion »

jessaustin wrote: post #103
simoncion wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...out-smarted the most technically advanced intelligence agency in the history of the world at their own game... The lifting of sensitive NSA documents smells to me of gross incompetence. It troubles me that this hasn't gotten more discussion. Snowden was working for Booz Allen Hamilton in Hawaii. While working for this government contractor, he managed to copy a great many secrets that were probably supposed to b…

You seem to think that exploiting human weakness is somehow out-of-bounds for attackers. Do you, by any chance, set policy for the NSA?

Exploiting human weakness is totally fair game. I am not an NSA policy setter. I have never directly worked for any government agency, but I have worked as a computer security auditor. If you don't account for human weakness in the threat models for your high value assets, you've already lost.

While there are no silver bullets, there are auditing policies [0] and technological mechanisms [1] that attempt to prevent improper use of credentials or improper access of information, and can detect instances of the same after the fact.

Yes, this sort of thing requires a lot of thought to set up, personnel to maintain, political capital to keep going, and regular objective and honest reevaluations to ensure continued effectiveness. However, I don't see any other way to do this if you've data that you need to protect from your enemies.

If protecting the NSA's highly sensitive information isn't worth all that trouble, is it actually worth protecting?

[0] Such as daily inspection of badge-in, badge-out, log-in, log-out, and document/resource access logs to verify physical presence and ensure that one isn't reading things that one's not supposed to have access to.

[1] Such as proper use of SELinux for fine-grained access control, WORM logging devices for tamper-resistant logging, account lockouts on detection of data access or log-in irregularities to minimize damage from account "spoofing" [You're at lunch, but you logged in to another computer? You badged-out for the day, but pulled some document from backup at the office? Instant lockout, termination of all of your processes across all systems, and message to facility security.], etc. etc..

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