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Snapchat is Intrinsically Worthless

roymurdock.com

111–120 of 128 posts

Re: Snapchat is Intrinsically Worthless

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, and then all of the sudden it starts raining and the kids flock to another beach with a newer DJ and fresh faces. End game.

I believe FB Poke tried to make it rain but look how that turned out

To be fair though, snapchat isn't old enough to be "lame" while facebook is, and snapchat isn't doing anything to piss off users yet (which they will have to in order to monetize most likely).

We'll see if snapchat can hold the throne after serious monetization.

Re: Snapchat is Intrinsically Worthless

#112

I loved this piece, but perhaps not for the reason Roy wrote it. One of the common themes in investing is "what am I missing?" and this piece is a great walk through through a reasoned set of parameters that might make a company or project more or less valuable. The assertion that SnapChat is 'Intrinsicially' worthless is of course false. For something to actually be "worthless" in a free market would require that ei…

But that is presupposing that a) data is undeniably king as a competitive edge, (it might be, but we don't know this for sure, we might be in for a surprise), and b) that Snapchat is simply unable to make any significant change in its operations.

The Snapchat team is ostensibly pretty talented, and apparently on fire right now, so who knows, they might start something new on the side and link it to Snapchat which may really take off.

Re: Snapchat is Intrinsically Worthless

#113

I loved this piece, but perhaps not for the reason Roy wrote it. One of the common themes in investing is "what am I missing?" and this piece is a great walk through through a reasoned set of parameters that might make a company or project more or less valuable. The assertion that SnapChat is 'Intrinsicially' worthless is of course false. For something to actually be "worthless" in a free market would require that ei…

Thanks for the comment ChuckMcM, I'm glad you enjoyed the article. I tried to stay away from poking fun at the simplicity of the technical aspects of the service as much as possible, and I didn't mean for the article to come across as tech-focused. All I meant with the MS Paint/duct tape comment was that it wouldn't be hard for a competitor to recreate the service - in fact Facebook Poke has already tried and failed…

"The question then becomes how much is it actually worth?"

The correct answer is 'what someone will pay for it.' But I recognize that answer is unsatisfactory. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe you are asking "What line of reasoning about Snapchat results in the highest valuation?" Or to put it differently, how does someone convince themselves that Snapchat could be worth billions rather than a few million at most.

I suspect the answer goes something like this;

1.) 13 - 24 year olds spend a big chunk of money (http://www.bls.gov/cex/2012/combined/age.pdf)

2.) They compose a cohort of approximately 50M individuals. (http://www.census.gov/popest/data/national/asrh/2012/index.h...)

3.) Smartphone ownership in this market is high, and skewed to the high income members (http://www.nielsen.com/us/en/newswire/2012/survey-new-u-s-sm...)

4.) At an estimate of 305MM 'snaps' per day, assuming multiple snaps per user. We can estimate that Snapchat has something north of 70% of the high income youth smart phones captured.

What is that worth? Can you entice them buy 1 thing? What is the biggest expense of any transient product? Customer acquisition. What would you pay to say something to nearly every customer in your market?

Well we know from the SuperBowl that 30 seconds of your time, once a year, might be worth $4M (http://variety.com/2013/tv/news/super-bowl-ads-fox-seeks-4m-...).

My guess is that if your in a product space that depends on consumers in this demographic, then being able to talk to them through SnapChat would be as valuable as a SuperBowl advertisement to you. And if you are an investor, owning a piece of that channel might appear to be a very good bet.

Re: Snapchat is Intrinsically Worthless

#114

I loved this piece, but perhaps not for the reason Roy wrote it. One of the common themes in investing is "what am I missing?" and this piece is a great walk through through a reasoned set of parameters that might make a company or project more or less valuable. The assertion that SnapChat is 'Intrinsicially' worthless is of course false. For something to actually be "worthless" in a free market would require that ei…

Agreed. This is why Snapchat is attractive, and the model of "get users and content now, monetize later" has worked in the past. So this is simply a scaled-up challenge. I'm curious to see how Snapchat makes its money. Here's some of my ideas and they all involve in-app purchases: * Corporate deals that allow you to place products in your snaps, kinda like Photoshop. Example: you pay $0.99 to be able to place a chara…

Don't you feel a bit dirty coming up with those ideas?

Re: Snapchat is Intrinsically Worthless

#115
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, in every way that matters to most people.

Except for the ways in which people are outraged over being spied upon.

I feel you, but you're conflating "angry, principled nerds" with "most people". If you really think people outside your filter bubble are "outraged", look further.

Re: Snapchat is Intrinsically Worthless

#116
post #7

Perhaps their endgame is to use a vast collection of compromising images collected under the pretence of privacy to extort protection fees from their users.

Slight possibility of a lawsuit there.

Unless the extorter was a "third party" "hacker"

Re: Snapchat is Intrinsically Worthless

#117
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trust matters.

An interesting statement, given that the problem that Snapchat addresses is that its users don't trust each other. Otherwise they could send their embarrassing pictures by plain old e-mail with a request 'please do not forward'. Instead they place proxy-trust in Snapchat to enforce that restriction; if that trust falters, so does Snapchat.

"But it's probably not worth the effort, they wouldn't do it"

Re: Snapchat is Intrinsically Worthless

#118

I loved this piece, but perhaps not for the reason Roy wrote it. One of the common themes in investing is "what am I missing?" and this piece is a great walk through through a reasoned set of parameters that might make a company or project more or less valuable. The assertion that SnapChat is 'Intrinsicially' worthless is of course false. For something to actually be "worthless" in a free market would require that ei…

We need to get away from the idea of intrinsic worth. There are somethings that are worth a lot that you wouldn't pay money for, such as honesty. Converse applies too.

Furthermore, even money itself has no intrinsic worth. The old Indian adage of "when all the trees are gone, ... try to eat money" reminds us of the mania of collecting things that have little value on its own.

What does this mean in the context of Snapchat? Firstly, snapchat trades in the attention of a particular demographic. The market has shown that it is willing to pay for the attention of this group - witness how much advertisers spend on tv. However, the younger set are watching less TV than their predecessors. Ergo, the advertising spend will have to follow where the youth are. When young people were in cars, billboards were real estate. Bill boards themselves have no intrinsic value, but it didn't stop people from making money (Ted Turner's dad ran a billboard business).

The real question is whether Snapchat will endure past a couple of seasons in its present format. There was a time when Twitter was cool, but now it has repositioned itself as a real time news feed. I think Snapchat has creates real value. Kids get the validation they crave for in a social network, but not have to worry about a permanent record of their activities being archived somewhere. Even if this is not worth money to kids, it generated value to a concerned parent.

Re: Snapchat is Intrinsically Worthless

#119
While I agree with most of the points the author makes in this article, I disagree with the ultimate thesis.

Snapchat offers what? Engagement

So how do you monetize that? Get users to engage with brands

Allow me to elaborate. Twitter's Amplify partnership program is a brilliant example of the amount brands are willing to pay to engage with customers (both existing and potential). Twitter used to be in a unique position to offer that engagement too: with huge penetration, easy integration into existing media (putting a hashtag in the corner of a TV broadcast, for instance), and an incredibly low-friction engagement process. Twitter made it easy for a brand to create a sea of voices engaging with a brand. I believe Snapchat is now in a position to make a similar offer.

Before I go on, I'd like to pose a question: how many people read event-centric tweets after an event? Aside from journalists reporting on said event looking for memorable tweets, my guess is not many. Hell, most people barely pay attention to the stream during these events. At most, you have a tweet that's at the top of a feed for a few seconds before being quickly pushed down by a dozen more, never to be read again. I'm sure by now you're connecting the dots: Snapchat offers a similar service in that respect.

The thing is, there's a major core difference between these two. Twitter is a public forum, and Snapchat is strictly peer-to-peer communication. This gives Snapchat a unique offering, in that it allows brands to communicate one-on-one with customers.

Imagine, if you will, a broadcast of The Walking Dead (I use them as an example for two reasons: 1.) I'm a huge fan, and 2.) They're big on the second-screen experience so this seems plausible). As part of your second-screen experience, one might find a stream of picture responses to various moments in the episode. Major character dies, suddenly the stream is full of shocked faces (maybe some rage faces or big goofy grins, depending on who). Now imagine this stream is powered by Snapchat.

This is already possible with Twitter, to a degree, but with Snapchat there's less inhibition which will drive greater participation and greater engagement. Not only that, but Snapchat would also allow TWD to engage back with the user on a personal level- maybe respond with a snap that contains a marketing call-to-action ("Want more scares? Check out the exclusive behind-the-scenes footage online"), or just responds with a zombified version of the image you sent in (how cool would that be?).

I'm sure there are many more awesome use cases than what I just stated, but I think this example speaks to the fact that Snapchat can be a real force for engagement without requiring brands to spam the hell out of the platform's users. This is where Snapchat outperforms against any other social product when it comes to driving brand engagement: because the users are so fanatically engaging with the product already, brands don't need to spam. They can just interact with the users in a meaningful or entertaining way - and I don't mean this "Get a coupon that you have 10 seconds to screenshot" bullshit, or "Let brands send snapchats that last forever" or any shit like that. Just give the users a fun way to interact with your brand, and the loyalty (and purchases) will come.

So, here's what I would do, if I were to monetize Snapchat:

- $20/yr developer program

- Free API access for up to 2,000 snaps sent/received per month

- Pay-as-you-go model: $XX for every additional 10,000 additional snaps

- Hashtag support (maybe)

- Analytics

- Offer consulting at a premium to help brands effectively leverage Snapchat

Notice the generous pricing structure. I think one thing that Snapchat can cash in on is the uniqueness of its platform, and the eagerness of the hacker community at large to build on top of it. I want you to recall the modest success of App.net, which doesn't have nearly the engagement metrics or penetration that Snapchat currently enjoys. I for one have several small projects I'd like to build on the Snapchat platform, and would be more than happy to pay a modest premium for the opportunity. The pay-as-you-go structure keeps your hackers happy (I doubt anyone would pay $100+ for toy projects), and also maximizes revenue from larger brand campaigns.

In conclusion, I think the assertion that Snapchat "has no intrinsic value" is complete bollocks.

Re: Snapchat is Intrinsically Worthless

#120

I loved this piece, but perhaps not for the reason Roy wrote it. One of the common themes in investing is "what am I missing?" and this piece is a great walk through through a reasoned set of parameters that might make a company or project more or less valuable. The assertion that SnapChat is 'Intrinsicially' worthless is of course false. For something to actually be "worthless" in a free market would require that ei…

Agreed. This is why Snapchat is attractive, and the model of "get users and content now, monetize later" has worked in the past. So this is simply a scaled-up challenge. I'm curious to see how Snapchat makes its money. Here's some of my ideas and they all involve in-app purchases: * Corporate deals that allow you to place products in your snaps, kinda like Photoshop. Example: you pay $0.99 to be able to place a chara…

This is, to me, like an advertisement for the Amish lifestyle.
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