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Replacing Python

roscidus.com

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Re: Replacing Python

#111

Post by steveklabnik »

pjmlp wrote: post #110
steveklabnik wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is not that you can't manually allocate memory, it's that you cannot not automatically allocate memory.

That's debatable, as you can write the code in such way that it does not trigger allocations in a specific situation where it might be critical. Having used Native Oberon in the 90's, I became convinced that system programming languages with GC are possible. Latest versions of AOS even had video players with good framerate written in Active Oberon, with some Assembly snippets. However, in the Oberon family, besides N…

That helps, but in some domains, it's 100% unacceptable. For example, kernels or more intense, high-end video games. And can you tell Go's GC not to run for a period of time? I thought that it could stop the world at any time.

Don't get me wrong, I do 90% of my coding in a garbage-collected language. But any mandatory GC does limit your domain.

Re: Replacing Python

#112

Post by oscargrouch »

luikore wrote: post #91
tikhonj wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always thought it would be a perfect language for things like aerospace. NASA, for example, uses unsafe languages like C and compensates for that with extremely rigorous processes. Of course, this means that it takes forever to get anything done. I can't help thinking that using a better tool like ATS would actually increase productivity without compensating safety. If anything, the types would provide an extra…

If the mission is critical, choosing programmers matters more that choosing languages. If ATS is hard to use, then it's the right choice because the users who mastered such difficult technique must be the smartest guys...

Or the dumbest, because you dont pick something that is more difficult than its need to be.. well designed languages should help you to focus on the problem domain with little effort possible.. not on the language itself and its caveats..

Languages, as means to create programs that express some sort of logic, must get out of your way.. So i dont think its smart to pick a language because its hard, unless its for create new sorts of mind games and puzzles, and not by the sake of the final objective that is coding itself.. to create programs

Re: Replacing Python

#114

Post by anaphor »

njharman wrote: post #81

I do not understand at all author's statement that OCaml datastructures are big win over Python's let {cache; config} = b in print_endline (String.concat "," cache); print_endline (String.concat "," config) ;; vs, actually I'm not even sure what the ocaml is attempting, some variation of print '%s,' % b.cache print '%s,' % b.config Which, in Python, if your printing more than a few should be print ',\n'.join((b.confi…

How is it a misuse of the term "pattern matching" ?

Re: Replacing Python

#115

Post by alextingle »

mynameisme wrote: post #66
alextingle wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a crazy moving target that never seems to work right. Even if it does work right, pretty soon some update breaks it. And then there's the fact that most (desktop) Java applications look like arse and run like a dog.

The JVM is a crazy moving target? Can you give an example of that please?

Java Update.

Re: Replacing Python

#116

Post by pjmlp »

steveklabnik wrote: post #111
pjmlp wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's debatable, as you can write the code in such way that it does not trigger allocations in a specific situation where it might be critical. Having used Native Oberon in the 90's, I became convinced that system programming languages with GC are possible. Latest versions of AOS even had video players with good framerate written in Active Oberon, with some Assembly snippets. However, in the Oberon family, besides N…

That helps, but in some domains, it's 100% unacceptable. For example, kernels or more intense, high-end video games. And can you tell Go's GC not to run for a period of time? I thought that it could stop the world at any time. Don't get me wrong, I do 90% of my coding in a garbage-collected language. But any mandatory GC does limit your domain.

> That helps, but in some domains, it's 100% unacceptable. For example, kernels or more intense, high-end video games.

However such systems exist.

Kernels => Native Oberon, Blue Bottle, EthOS. All desktop oriented systems used at ETHZ in Switzerland during the 90's. Used for teaching OS design, and a few teachers even used them as their main system.

High end games => The Witcher for XBox 360. They made use of a GC runtime in the game engine.

> But any mandatory GC does limit your domain.

I tend to think the limit is more religious than practical.

Please note that I defend GC enabled systems programming languages, not necessarily Go for such domains.

Re: Replacing Python

#117

Post by vph »

Why is it necessary to replace Python for this project? And what are the objectives for the replacement? It's not clear what the author's problems and objectives are.

Re: Replacing Python

#118

Post by alextingle »

mercurial wrote: post #106
jamespo wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although one of the best desktop RSS readers (RSSOwl) and two of the best IDEs (Eclipse & IntelliJ) are written in Java.

Of these, I have only tried Eclipse. While certainly more full-featured out of the box, its speed, especially at startup, is really nothing to boast about when compared to Visual Studio.

When I see people arguing about which is the best IDE, I think of this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d-c4INM-Wk

Re: Replacing Python

#119

Post by alextingle »

cmccabe wrote: post #88
alextingle wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With GCC, at least, you can guarantee that it's thread-safe. (Of course, in some pathological cases you can get then get deadlocks during global static initialisation. C++ is such a lovely language!) Also, I don't think Google's style guide is the be-all-and-end-all of good C++ style. Virtually non of Boost's code would comply with it. "We do not use C++ exceptions" indeed!

You're starting from a false premise, which is that Boost is good. In reality, Boost is stuff that either couldn't make the cut to get into the C++ standard library, or is so new that nobody knows whether it's any good or not.

You would never catch me saying that Boost is good. Heaven forfend! Some of it is good, and other bits are awful. The Boost "style" is, however, quite popular in commercial C++ projects.

Re: Replacing Python

#120

Post by __float »

vph wrote: post #117

Why is it necessary to replace Python for this project? And what are the objectives for the replacement? It's not clear what the author's problems and objectives are.

This is all explained in the first part he so kindly links to in the third word ;)

http://roscidus.com/blog/blog/2013/06/09/choosing-a-python-r...

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