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Revealed: Qatar's World Cup 'slaves'

theguardian.com

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Re: Revealed: Qatar's World Cup 'slaves'

#111

Post by morgante »

cturner wrote: post #71
morgante wrote: post #22

As someone who lives in the Emirates, I have to object to the allegation of "slaves." This is not slavery. It's indentured servitude, which is definitely distressing but not quite of the same character. Most importantly, in the talks I've had with workers, the vast majority of them still are happy to have these jobs despite the conditions. They're paid an order of magnitude more than they make in Nepal and if you go…

Do you think they'd be paid in full at the end of their period? From the pattern of treatment described in the article, I'd expect it's common for them to be left unpaid or underpaid at the close.

> I'd expect it's common for them to be left unpaid or underpaid at the close.

Unpaid, no. It's extremely rare for an employer to not pay anything ever. Underpaid, definitely—between extra "fees" and deductions, many workers end up with less than they expected (but still more than they'd make back home).

Re: Revealed: Qatar's World Cup 'slaves'

#112

Post by jowiar »

tantalor wrote: post #107
philwelch wrote: post #60

Qatar's 2022 World Cup is a major controversy even outside of this. FIFA accepts World Cup bids mainly on the basis of bribery, but Qatar was a bridge too far. The country is so unsuitable to host a World Cup while simultaneously being so full of money that's being spent chasing prestige that it's completely blatant what really happened there. The temperature is over 100 in the summer, so even with massive air condit…

Do the terms "winter" and "summer" in this context only refer to the northern hemisphere? Was Australia's "summer" bid to place the tournament in their winter? Presumably they have better weather in the winter.

Much of Australia is reasonably temperate. July in Sydney or Melbourne is in the 40s-50s Fahrenheit, which, while chilly, is both comparable to the climate for a large portion of the club season in Europe and vastly better than 100-ish for a sport that combines endurance running with interval sprints.

Re: Revealed: Qatar's World Cup 'slaves'

#113

Post by wooter »

Synaesthesia wrote: post #104
wooter wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hold up. in no way is/was Saipan a paradise of libertarian economic governance. From your article: "If we complain, then our bosses would send us back to China and take away all of our money. Our families need the money." No libertarian I know, me included, would object to (rather, we would support) massive penalties for any entity that engaged in such behavior. Additionally, Jack Abramoff and Tom Delay are the exact…

I think the "paradise of libertarian economic governance" was sarcasm

seemed to me like he was suggesting the form of governance in place in Saipan 20 years ago was in some way consistent with Libertarian ideals - it was not.

Re: Revealed: Qatar's World Cup 'slaves'

#114

Post by awda »

yapcguy wrote: post #110
philwelch wrote: post #60

Qatar's 2022 World Cup is a major controversy even outside of this. FIFA accepts World Cup bids mainly on the basis of bribery, but Qatar was a bridge too far. The country is so unsuitable to host a World Cup while simultaneously being so full of money that's being spent chasing prestige that it's completely blatant what really happened there. The temperature is over 100 in the summer, so even with massive air condit…

I think this is new to many people and thus well worth reporting. Also, homosexuality was decriminalised in Russia in 1993. The recent law bans distributing material about non-traditional sexual relations to minors. It does not make it illegal to be gay in Russia. Contrast this to Qatar where it is illegal to be a male and homosexual - the punishment being a couple of years in prison and public lashing.

Yeah, it's not illegal, just totally unsafe due to vigilante mobs enforcing perceived societal values. TOTALLY different.

Relative to each other, maybe it's better for gays in Russia than Qatar. But they're both pretty fucking awful compared to the rest of the world.

Re: Revealed: Qatar's World Cup 'slaves'

#115

Post by adwf »

philwelch wrote: post #60

Qatar's 2022 World Cup is a major controversy even outside of this. FIFA accepts World Cup bids mainly on the basis of bribery, but Qatar was a bridge too far. The country is so unsuitable to host a World Cup while simultaneously being so full of money that's being spent chasing prestige that it's completely blatant what really happened there. The temperature is over 100 in the summer, so even with massive air condit…

Yes, so much corruption went on with that particular round of World Cup bidding.

For example: http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment...

The disturbing thing is that everyone knew that was only the tip of the iceberg, but they still didn't even mention revoking the World Cup allocation and having a second vote. Just kicked a couple of members of the committee out and then went on with business as usual.

Re: Revealed: Qatar's World Cup 'slaves'

#116

Post by beloch »

Qatar is right next to the UAE, both geographically and in terms of their treatment of foreign laborers. When somebody I know mentions they are considering working or vacationing in Dubai, I make a point of mentioning how those gleaming towers were built. Now I get to complain about Qatar whenever the world cup comes up in conversation. Gee, that ought to make me popular!

The UAE and Qatar are both countries awash in oil money who are trying to buy their way out of their uncivilized reputations. Surprisingly, it's working. People are attracted by the gleaming steel and concrete that makes places like Dubai seem like they're from the future. Working there (in white collar jobs) also appeals because the average engineer can afford servants! Although it may feel boorish, pointing out the true nature of the foundations these places are built upon is the only way to prevent more cities just like them from popping up wherever there is money right next to poverty.

Re: Revealed: Qatar's World Cup 'slaves'

#117

Post by TheCoelacanth »

jowiar wrote: post #112
tantalor wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do the terms "winter" and "summer" in this context only refer to the northern hemisphere? Was Australia's "summer" bid to place the tournament in their winter? Presumably they have better weather in the winter.

Much of Australia is reasonably temperate. July in Sydney or Melbourne is in the 40s-50s Fahrenheit, which, while chilly, is both comparable to the climate for a large portion of the club season in Europe and vastly better than 100-ish for a sport that combines endurance running with interval sprints.

The previous World Cup in South Africa was also held during their winter. I believe the weather was similar to what Australia would have.

Re: Revealed: Qatar's World Cup 'slaves'

#118

Post by srl »

chc wrote: post #105
srl wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(American) Usually when I see it intended as a quote in the headline, the "says X named official" is either in the headline or in the lede, which will basically just be an expansion of the headline anyway. Often though, that's not the case, and there's palpable sarcasm associated with the quote. (I've come to dislike that style of writing stories.)

I associate that style of writing more with magazines than newspapers, though I suppose I don't read a lot of physical newspapers these days and maybe there is a plague of sarcastic headlines on news articles that I'm just not aware of.

I don't read printed newspapers, but do see it a lot online. I haven't noticed any particular sources which seem to be rabid abusers (other than the obvious, like rt and fox, which I ignore anyway).

Re: Revealed: Qatar's World Cup 'slaves'

#119

Post by ihsw »

jessaustin wrote: post #83
ihsw wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Considering wages are being held and passports are taken, I'd say the use of the word slave is justified. Slavery has a very unambiguous definition -- people are treated as property where they're traded and sold, and forced to work. If passports are being collected and passed around in a slavery market then I'd agree with you, but as it stands there is no such evidence of that.

...as it stands there is no such evidence of that. There have certainly been allegations of it, including on this comment page. Why should we assume the best possible interpretation of how Qatari projects might be staffed with manual labor? Based on the little I've learned, any assumptions I make are more likely to go in the other direction.

Personally I refuse to entertain conjecture and hearsay, so I have no interest in making any assumptions or interpretations.

Re: Revealed: Qatar's World Cup 'slaves'

#120

Post by wh0car3s »

tantalor wrote: post #107
philwelch wrote: post #60

Qatar's 2022 World Cup is a major controversy even outside of this. FIFA accepts World Cup bids mainly on the basis of bribery, but Qatar was a bridge too far. The country is so unsuitable to host a World Cup while simultaneously being so full of money that's being spent chasing prestige that it's completely blatant what really happened there. The temperature is over 100 in the summer, so even with massive air condit…

Do the terms "winter" and "summer" in this context only refer to the northern hemisphere? Was Australia's "summer" bid to place the tournament in their winter? Presumably they have better weather in the winter.

Yep, it is based on the northern hemisphere. Generally, the football season starts from Aug to May (in Europe) so the WC is usually held on June-July.

AFAIK, Australia's bid was for June-July 2022 and if FIFA changes the date, there is talk that Football Federation Australia will ask for recompense on their bid http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/sep/17/world-cup-20... >.

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