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How to Raise Money

paulgraham.com

111–120 of 125 posts

Re: How to Raise Money

#111
post #90
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean they don't make money that way? Do you just mean that $100m isn't a hit? If that's all you mean, change that number to $1b or $10b or one hundred... billion dollars (pinky to lip). But I think what you mean is that investors make money by finding companies that are grossly undervalued, to the point that an order of magnitude change in valuation shouldn't affect the decision. I'm still skeptical of th…

Your questions are interesting, because (outside of the startup world) they are based on sound logic. The basic rules of expected value don't apply to startups, because the present value is not a good predictor of future value. Some people are good at predicting the outcome (success vs failure), but nobody can get the number right ($10m vs $1b). Any investor who lets marginal changes in valuation influence his decisi…

> The basic rules of expected value don't apply to startups

If you'd reword that as "the basic rules of expected value are difficult to apply to startups", there'd be some chance it was true :).

And yet, difficult as it may be to apply, expected value is the framework to rationally make a decision about low probability / high payoff investments. Of course, if YCombinator is already invested at an early stage (note: when the valuation is quite low), I can understand why pg wouldn't care too much about the later stage valuations. If you look at what's best for YC, it's first and foremost that companies get the money they need to succeed (an incentive aligned with the founders and any investors) but probably also that the valuations (after their own investment) be as high as possible so that more of the pie remains for later investments. This latter incentive is clearly not aligned with investors and as an investor I'd take the advice to disregard valuation with a big grain of salt.

Re: How to Raise Money

#112
A few points pg missed:

- be white

- be under 30. Preferably under 25

- don't sound too foreign

- make sure you are well connected and/or went to harvard, mit or some such

- look like Zuck if at all possible!

Did I leave anything out?

Re: How to Raise Money

#113
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey Paul, I found another small typo: "but if we raise a few hundred thousand we can hire a one or two smart friends" Should be: "but if we raise a few hundred thousand we can hire one or two smart friends" Thanks again for the article, very useful.

Fixed, thanks.

[deleted]

Re: How to Raise Money

#114
post #87

The line in the essay I liked best was: > But there may be cases where a startup either wouldn't want to grow faster, or outside money wouldn't help them to, and if you're one of them, don't raise money. Having the essay earlier would have saved me a lot of time and effort. For my startup, I tried for a long time to raise money, and as in the essay it was a huge distraction from the real work. Eventually, at absurdly…

I can relate to most of what you're describing but wanted to point out that your business (any business) is a lot more than "core" of your business. If you're content with the rate of growth, you are already profitable or don't need additional funding etc. than you may not need the VCs. PG's essay repeatedly states not to raise money. But if you do want to make strategic investments, accelerate growth, etc. you will need to do many things that are outside the "core" of your business. In that case you may try to find VCs that have experience doing that, or at least can open doors for you so that you can find the right people to help you get there, etc.

Re: How to Raise Money

#115
post #87

The line in the essay I liked best was: > But there may be cases where a startup either wouldn't want to grow faster, or outside money wouldn't help them to, and if you're one of them, don't raise money. Having the essay earlier would have saved me a lot of time and effort. For my startup, I tried for a long time to raise money, and as in the essay it was a huge distraction from the real work. Eventually, at absurdly…

Just to provide a counter example to balance your assessment of VCs: Our lead investor has a Ph.D. in EE from Stanford. Our secondary investor has an engineering degree from MIT and is a serial entrepreneur. They have been very helpful in terms of advice and support.

Apparently you don't have a counterexample:

I made two points, that likely the VCs could not evaluate my project and likely only a few VCs could direct an evaluation.

For the first of these two, a EE Ph.D. very likely would not understand the crucial, core applied math of my startup due to not taking the right prerequisite courses in graduate school. If they studied from Luenberger at Stanford, then maybe they would have some of the prerequisites!

For the second, directing a competent review of my work, a EE Ph.D. would likely be able to do that, especially once I gave them a list of reviewers, and I did indicate that a few VCs could so direct a review.

There is a huge problem with VC: Necessarily they are looking for exceptional cases. So, what the average deal looks like provides poor guidance on what a really desirable deal would look like. And since the VCs are also looking for things that are new, what the best deals of the past 10 years looked like also provides little guidance.

There are ways to know that something really is exceptional and powerful early on, and the US DoD has provided a long list of examples for the past 70 years or so. E.g., the first GPS was done by the US Navy for the SSBNs, and the crucial, core work started on the back of an envelop at the JHU/APL. The planning document was enough to remove risk, and the rest is history. Early in my career, I wrote software in the group that did the software for the continually updated orbit determination calculations for that Navy system and heard the stories about how the system was invented and pushed forward. It really is possible to evaluate projects on paper and confirm that they are powerful and exceptional; results on paper are how nearly all of research works, and the work really can be evaluated and seen to be powerful if it is; but nearly no VCs can evaluate projects on paper, and maybe their LPs wouldn't let them fund on that basis anyway.

So, the VCs are looking for exceptional projects, and there are ways to create, present, and evaluate such projects, but VCs don't do or pay attention to those things. This situation is so incredible that it took me a while to believe it. No wonder their ROI is low.

Re: How to Raise Money

#116
post #114
post #87

The line in the essay I liked best was: > But there may be cases where a startup either wouldn't want to grow faster, or outside money wouldn't help them to, and if you're one of them, don't raise money. Having the essay earlier would have saved me a lot of time and effort. For my startup, I tried for a long time to raise money, and as in the essay it was a huge distraction from the real work. Eventually, at absurdly…

I can relate to most of what you're describing but wanted to point out that your business (any business) is a lot more than "core" of your business. If you're content with the rate of growth, you are already profitable or don't need additional funding etc. than you may not need the VCs. PG's essay repeatedly states not to raise money. But if you do want to make strategic investments, accelerate growth, etc. you will…

I don't think we have much disagreement. For your

> I can relate to most of what you're describing but wanted to point out that your business (any business) is a lot more than "core" of your business.

Yes, but I've been a B-school prof, and last month got a lesson in business: A house in my neighborhood in NY USA had the shrubbery too tall, and a crew was hired to come in with a chain saw and cut back the shrubbery. They had a nice new truck. My guess is that they were recently from Mexico and that the lead guy was there running all his business. And he was doing fine without an MBA or VC!

Basically, for millions of businesses in the US, the non-core functions get handled plenty well enough by just the founders without help from an MBA or VC. I did mention Khosla's recent remark on how much VCs help founders run their businesses.

Your point about "strategic investments" may be correct: Sure, a standard PE idea is a roll-up. However, I'm not sure that really VC capital is the best for such investments, but in some cases maybe it is.

For "growth", I don't see the crucial need for VC given that the VCs want to see a lot in traction, at Series A and certainly for a growth round after a Series A. It seems to me that a founder should just let the revenue from the assumed traction fund the growth. Lots of businesses, pizza shops to auto body shops, do, and an IT business should have an advantage.

Besides, some of PGs growth timing looks fishy to me, especially get a VC round, hire people, and show big results in 18 months. Maybe can do that work and get the additional revenue in the 18 months, but I'd have a tough time believing that could get a good team built -- advertize, interview, select, move, house bought, kids in school, spouse in a job, introduced in the office, familiar with the office procedures and tools, train, build team -- in 18 months. Seems to me that the growth bottleneck is team building, not funding.

Re: How to Raise Money

#117
post #59
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Since phase 2 prices vary at most 10x and the big successes generate returns of at least 100x, investors should pick startups entirely based on their estimate of the probability that the company will be a big success and hardly at all on price. Can someone explain the reasoning here? Investing at a lower valuation means that for the same money in, the investor gets a higher cut of any payout, right? If an investor…

In practice few to zero investors make money that way. All the money in startup investing is in the big hits. Which means the way to make money as a investor is to try to invest in the companies you think will be big hits, and pay whatever the price happens to be.

It may be worth pointing out that pg could have some interest in what's being said here, though I don't by any means think that's his motive. Since YC takes equity before stage 2, it's much better for YC if investors over-invest in startups, since that'll improve their chances of winning.

I actually think he's more likely to simply care a lot about making life better for founders, though. He may care about investors too, but I warrant it's less.

Re: How to Raise Money

#118
post #48
post #2

Incidentally, this is the actual advice we give startups about fundraising at YC. This batch I finally wrote it all down, and the s2013 startups used it when raising money.

> Since phase 2 prices vary at most 10x and the big successes generate returns of at least 100x, investors should pick startups entirely based on their estimate of the probability that the company will be a big success and hardly at all on price. Can someone explain the reasoning here? Investing at a lower valuation means that for the same money in, the investor gets a higher cut of any payout, right? If an investor…

[deleted]

Re: How to Raise Money

#119
post #59
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Since phase 2 prices vary at most 10x and the big successes generate returns of at least 100x, investors should pick startups entirely based on their estimate of the probability that the company will be a big success and hardly at all on price. Can someone explain the reasoning here? Investing at a lower valuation means that for the same money in, the investor gets a higher cut of any payout, right? If an investor…

In practice few to zero investors make money that way. All the money in startup investing is in the big hits. Which means the way to make money as a investor is to try to invest in the companies you think will be big hits, and pay whatever the price happens to be.

> Since phase 2 prices vary at most 10x and the big successes generate returns of at least 100x, investors should pick startups entirely based on their estimate of the probability that the company will be a big success and hardly at all on price.

To give concrete numbers to pgs statement:

Pick 2 hypothetical startups: A and B. A will go on to be a 10 billion dollar company and B will be a 100 million dollar company. Now, valuations at round B series vary from say $40 million to $400 million (as pg said 10x). Note: they arent yet worth what they will be worth later. Now, say you take a 20% equity cut for the round and there is no dilution between this and when they go public (just a simplifying assumption). At the end, the 20% equity is worth either 200 million dollars for A or 20 million for B. The difference in profit is 180 million dollars; much more than any additional amount you would have paid to get in on a higher valuation. Therefore, if you believe the company to be of the A type, you will pay that 20% of a higher valuation.

> pay whatever the price happens to be.

This is what pg means: the difference in profit between A and B was 180 million dollars which far exceeds the difference in cost in investing in the two. This makes the investors rather price insensitive IF they think that you are in the A category. The reason that investors have the mental model of assigning to categories rather than guessing the percent chance of success is that they know often they guess wrong. There are simply too many variables to create any sort of accurate chance of success.

Re: How to Raise Money

#120
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In practice few to zero investors make money that way. All the money in startup investing is in the big hits. Which means the way to make money as a investor is to try to invest in the companies you think will be big hits, and pay whatever the price happens to be.

> Since phase 2 prices vary at most 10x and the big successes generate returns of at least 100x, investors should pick startups entirely based on their estimate of the probability that the company will be a big success and hardly at all on price. To give concrete numbers to pgs statement: Pick 2 hypothetical startups: A and B. A will go on to be a 10 billion dollar company and B will be a 100 million dollar company.…

> Therefore, if you believe the company to be of the A type ...

That's the problem I have with this line of thinking. An investor doesn't "believe" it to be type A. An investor gambles that it's going to be type A. Reasoning after the fact that you should have been willing to spend more on the winner, without accounting for probabilities, is flawed reasoning. If anyone could see five years ago that the company was certainly going to be worth $10b today, then it would have been worth $10b five years ago (after adjusting for inflation). If no one else could see it but you, and yet you were somehow certain, then sure, but that's not typically the situation.

[Before continuing, let me point out that you flubbed the math: 20% of $10b is $2b, not $200m. The difference between A and B equity is $1.98b, not $180m. This wasn't particularly important to your point, but since I am continuing this example I thought it might avoid confusion to note the error.]

Since most people generally prefer frequentist reasoning, here's another try. Suppose you invested in 100 companies, one of which was company A and the other 99 of which failed. If you invested at 20% in all 100 companies valued at $40m each, then you've spent $800m and have $2b in equity. If you invested in those same companies at $400m valuation each, then you spent $8b for that same equity of $2b.

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