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E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

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Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#111

Post by marssaxman »

NoPiece wrote: post #54
tjohns wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically, CHP can give you a ticket if you use the FasTrak lanes without a FasTrack transponder, even though their computer system has no problems billing your account by license plate. I've heard of it happening online, but never seen them pull somebody over personally.

Since earlier this year, they are taking an alternate approach with the Golden Gate bridge, and have switched to electronic only tolls. So either you have fastrak, or when you drive across they photograph your license plate and mail you a bill. No more pay by cash, or differentiated lanes. I could see that becoming the norm.

I drove across the Golden Gate Bridge a few months ago with no idea that this was going to happen - last time I was down there, they still had a normal tollbooth. I was in a borrowed car with Washington plates. If they'd had a normal toll booth I'd have paid, but with the system set up the way it was, I don't think they had any way to get revenue out of me.

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#113

Post by 616c »

Anechoic wrote: post #85
forgotAgain wrote: post #37

I have to disagree with those who say this isn't news. It was news to me and will, I believe, be news to most others as well. The only time before this that I heard about using EZ pass for anything other than tolls was a few years ago when I read about some feasibility work on the concept of traffic flow optimization being done around Ithaca, NY. I do wonder why they haven't been used yet to track speeding violations…

I do wonder why they haven't been used yet to track speeding violations. This question was answered for me by a Maryland DOT person a few back during a tour of one of their operations center. The upshot is that the intended purpose of EZ-pass and other toll systems are for improved traffic flow, there is a lot of DOT involvement and the DOT wants to encourage folks to use them. If those toll systems were to be used f…

My father is an attorney in NJ, and told me growing up as the system was first implemented in the tri-state it was off the table once this started to happen, on a large group of lawyers were vocal about making it very painful for the NJ and tristate DOT groups once they went too far.

I am not sure if I remembered this incorrectly but I am sure there were serious lawsuits in the tri-state, and lawyers were lining up to stick it to the states for it, but I could be wrong. Anyone find/know of data about this?

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#114

Post by coldtea »

oakwhiz wrote: post #46
forgotAgain wrote: post #37

I have to disagree with those who say this isn't news. It was news to me and will, I believe, be news to most others as well. The only time before this that I heard about using EZ pass for anything other than tolls was a few years ago when I read about some feasibility work on the concept of traffic flow optimization being done around Ithaca, NY. I do wonder why they haven't been used yet to track speeding violations…

Not all antistatic bags seem to block RF. You might want to double check yours, or consider upgrading to tinfoil.

Tinfoil as sarcasm would have made sense if what he feared (the extra tracking) was NOT happening. You know, like we used to mock people fearing aliens reading their mind and such.

Yet, this very news proves that it DOES happen.

So not only was the sarcasm misplaced, but he is in the right. Sure, one might believe that "well, a little tracking never hurt nobody" but that's another matter altogether.

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#116

Post by oakwhiz »

coldtea wrote: post #114
oakwhiz wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all antistatic bags seem to block RF. You might want to double check yours, or consider upgrading to tinfoil.

Tinfoil as sarcasm would have made sense if what he feared (the extra tracking) was NOT happening. You know, like we used to mock people fearing aliens reading their mind and such. Yet, this very news proves that it DOES happen. So not only was the sarcasm misplaced, but he is in the right. Sure, one might believe that "well, a little tracking never hurt nobody" but that's another matter altogether.

Are you saying that my post was sarcastic? That's strange, because I wasn't being sarcastic - my post was entirely based in fact. Tinfoil, or aluminum foil, is a cheap, commonly available, easily malleable conductor that is actually a pretty good RF attenuator. Some people are unaware that antistatic bags are not always good RF attenuators. If you intend to control when a device is permitted to receive radio waves, a simple and more effective solution is to merely wrap that device in aluminum foil.

I suppose this is sort of a Poe's law[0] effect in which sarcasm mocking security as a form of paranoia, and actual advice for improving one's own security, are now indistinguishable from one another.

0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#117

Post by mbreese »

dbloom wrote: post #94
mrb wrote: post #68

In California, our toll transponders (FasTrak) are spuriously read at the LAX airport, merely for tracking reasons, not for billing. Interesting reverse-engineering of FasTrak transponders in 2008: http://rdist.root.org/2008/08/07/fastrak-talk-summary-and-sl...

It's worth surfacing the fact that California's FasTrak transponders beep when they are being read (although it certainly might be possible for the beep to be suppressed). By the way, in addition to LAX, this also happens when you're looping around San Jose Mineta airport (SJC). The airport says that it's to track taxis, limos, and shuttles: http://www.mercurynews.com/search/ci_14885277

The beeping at SJC drives me nuts, since at SFO you can use the FasTrak to pay for parking.

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#118

Post by sokoloff »

fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #102
3minus1 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i bet it's expensive to determine the vehicle type in every single photo.

I bet it's not hard to tell a Peterbilt with trailer from a Honda Civic. They OCR the license plate number in real time, which is a whole lot more sophisticated of a problem than what I suggested.

OCR of license plate characters is far easier than distinguishing specific vehicle and weight classes. Fortunately, the license plate is connected to a database that tells you much of what you want anyway. Couple that with weight sensors (to count axles), and you've got the data you need for tolling without doing any "hard" visual recognition.

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#119

Post by NoPiece »

marssaxman wrote: post #111
NoPiece wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since earlier this year, they are taking an alternate approach with the Golden Gate bridge, and have switched to electronic only tolls. So either you have fastrak, or when you drive across they photograph your license plate and mail you a bill. No more pay by cash, or differentiated lanes. I could see that becoming the norm.

I drove across the Golden Gate Bridge a few months ago with no idea that this was going to happen - last time I was down there, they still had a normal tollbooth. I was in a borrowed car with Washington plates. If they'd had a normal toll booth I'd have paid, but with the system set up the way it was, I don't think they had any way to get revenue out of me.

I was also very confused the first time a drove across without the toll collectors. It felt like I was doing something wrong, and was going to end getting a ticket.

Do you know if the person you borrowed the car from got a bill? I'm curious if they are only able to bill California plates, or they have a national database of license plates.

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#120

Post by fnordfnordfnord »

tlrobinson wrote: post #109
fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Texas legislature recently made the cameras illegal here, but even before that, a 'ticket' was only a civil matter. They would make a note on your credit report against you if you failed to pay.

Even tickets issued by officeres wouldn't be available to your insurance company, or just the speed cameras?

Oh, no. The regular ticket business is booming, as usual.
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