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Apple’s Fingerprint ID May Mean You Can’t ‘Take the Fifth’

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Re: Apple’s Fingerprint ID May Mean You Can’t ‘Take the Fifth’

#111

Post by metabren »

crazygringo wrote: post #37

The way everyone's talking, you'd think Apple was taking away the four-digit PIN! But they're not... The fingerprint ID is just another option , which you don't have to use . So titles like this are just incorrect. Fingerprint ID isn't taking away any of your rights, because you can still use the PIN just like you always have . I mean seriously, what the heck is going on here? Why on earth are people getting worked u…

> The fingerprint ID is just another option, which you don't have to use.

Maybe not, but the mechanism still exists to capture your finger print — even if it's "turned off".

You may as well set up a location-aware tweet to broadcast "I'm here" every time you hit that home button.

Re: Apple’s Fingerprint ID May Mean You Can’t ‘Take the Fifth’

#112

Post by adamconroy »

unimpressive wrote: post #93
adamconroy wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Attacking apple is still dwarfed by drivel praising apple. It also goes with the territory for any successful entity. I have been annoyed by people complaining about Microsoft since the 90s. Close to 2 decades of criticising. Turns out they were right.

>Turns out they were right. What do you think they've been vindicated about exactly?

Maybe our wires are crossed but I was hinting that the critics have been vindicated not Microsoft.

Re: Apple’s Fingerprint ID May Mean You Can’t ‘Take the Fifth’

#113

Post by r0h1n »

crazygringo wrote: post #67
coldtea wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The way everyone's talking, you'd think Apple was taking away the four-digit PIN! But they're not... The fingerprint ID is just another option, which you don't have to use. That's never how it works. Today it's "just another option", a few years down the line it's mandatory. And "not having to use" does not equal "people will not use it unless they are fully aware of possible consequences" anyway.

> a few years down the line it's mandatory That's just FUD. And saying baseless things like "that's never how it works", that's just fearmongering, not contributing to the conversation. It doesn't even make sense. There are millions (hundreds of thousands? you get my point) of fingerprint readers out there. Suddenly Apple builds one in, an additional feature , and people start inventing conspiracy theories. People ar…

I'm from India. And we are 450 million people into (by next year that will be 600 million, and a few years later, 1.2 billion) a mammoth ID project that makes it mandatory to submit your biometric data (all fingers plus iris) to get the 'Aadhar' card. Of course, technically the card itself isn't mandatory, but because it's linked with various govt services ranging from subsidies (educational scholarships, cooking gas), pensions, property sales/rentals and even marriage registrations, it is as good as mandatory for most people. Various countries and multilateral aid agencies/donors are studying the Indian model to see if it can be replicated in other countries.

I agree it is not directly connected to Apple, or the US, but there is a progressive and gradual creep into the acceptance and use of biometric data.

Links:

- U.S. inquires about India’s UID project (http://secureidnews.com/news-item/u-s-inquires-about-indias-...)

The Evolution of India’s UID Program Lessons Learned and Implications for Other Developing Countries (http://www.cgdev.org/files/1426371_file_Zelazny_India_Case_S..., Section 3: Implications for other countries)

- Biometric Sensors in new iPhone Can be a Game Changer in India (http://www.nextbigwhat.com/biometric-sensors-new-iphone-in-i...) [Clueless piece, but highlights potential connections b/w iPhone biometrics and other ID projects]

- Opposition to the world’s biggest biometric identity scheme is growing (http://www.economist.com/node/21542814)

Re: Apple’s Fingerprint ID May Mean You Can’t ‘Take the Fifth’

#114

Post by sliverstorm »

coldtea wrote: post #88
crazygringo wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a few years down the line it's mandatory That's just FUD. And saying baseless things like "that's never how it works", that's just fearmongering, not contributing to the conversation. It doesn't even make sense. There are millions (hundreds of thousands? you get my point) of fingerprint readers out there. Suddenly Apple builds one in, an additional feature , and people start inventing conspiracy theories. People ar…

> That's just FUD. And saying baseless things like "that's never how it works", that's just fearmongering, not contributing to the conversation. It doesn't even make sense. It makes perfect sense -- you just need to follow the historical precedents, instead of looking for some inevitable logical reason why that would happen. Technologies introduced with the potential to control and restrict people (or users) have alw…

Technologies introduced with the potential to control and restrict people (or users) have always expanded their scope and reach.

And what better way to prove it than to cherry-pick examples.

Re: Apple’s Fingerprint ID May Mean You Can’t ‘Take the Fifth’

#115

Post by briandear »

coldtea wrote: post #88
crazygringo wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a few years down the line it's mandatory That's just FUD. And saying baseless things like "that's never how it works", that's just fearmongering, not contributing to the conversation. It doesn't even make sense. There are millions (hundreds of thousands? you get my point) of fingerprint readers out there. Suddenly Apple builds one in, an additional feature , and people start inventing conspiracy theories. People ar…

> That's just FUD. And saying baseless things like "that's never how it works", that's just fearmongering, not contributing to the conversation. It doesn't even make sense. It makes perfect sense -- you just need to follow the historical precedents, instead of looking for some inevitable logical reason why that would happen. Technologies introduced with the potential to control and restrict people (or users) have alw…

Good grief. Then unplug your damned devices and go live in a cabin somewhere. Many of us speak as if our lives were so profound that governments everywhere are just dying to violate us. Even with everyone's data shared everywhere it becomes meaningless after awhile due to the sheer volume.

Re: Apple’s Fingerprint ID May Mean You Can’t ‘Take the Fifth’

#116

Post by homeomorphic »

briandear wrote: post #115
coldtea wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's just FUD. And saying baseless things like "that's never how it works", that's just fearmongering, not contributing to the conversation. It doesn't even make sense. It makes perfect sense -- you just need to follow the historical precedents, instead of looking for some inevitable logical reason why that would happen. Technologies introduced with the potential to control and restrict people (or users) have alw…

Good grief. Then unplug your damned devices and go live in a cabin somewhere. Many of us speak as if our lives were so profound that governments everywhere are just dying to violate us. Even with everyone's data shared everywhere it becomes meaningless after awhile due to the sheer volume.

Respectfully, I think you're missing the point. It's not about any one person being interesting enough. The fifth amendment gives the (American) people a right not to incriminate themselves. The point is that a sizable chunk of the population can now unlock a lot of information about themselves without the fifth being an issue. I don't think the writer of the article claims that this is an effect that was actively saught after by Apple or the govt - it's simply here and people need to know and think.

It's as if someone invented a key you could turn to remember whatever you forgot. Great invention, but the article is saying: be aware, turning the key is not self-incrimination, and so now you have no 5th amendment.

Re: Apple’s Fingerprint ID May Mean You Can’t ‘Take the Fifth’

#117

Post by briandear »

ctdonath wrote: post #12
cbhl wrote: post #7

I feel like the author of this article is missing the whole point of Fingerprint ID. The feature is meant to make using an iPhone more secure for those of us who tend to leave our phones unlocked and PIN-free. If you're storing anything of value on your phone, the existing password-based and PIN-based lock mechanisms aren't going away any time soon. If nothing else, it'd break too many organizations' Active Directory…

No, you're missing his point. You're in court. You refuse to admit/verify the accusation that you were in the vicinity of the deceased's home. Cell phone records, dutifully recorded and reported under warrant from NSA...er...ATT, show your phone - which you are known to carry pretty much everywhere - was in that vicinity at the crime's time. You contend that does not constitute evidence. The phone is acquired, bailif…

So don't use fingerprint ID. It's pretty simple really. Or don't carry your phone when you commit crimes. Everybody knows that. Use a burner phone and leave your iPhone in your lair. The paranoia in this tread is bordering on pathological. If you did commit a crime then a lack of fingerprint scanner isn't going to help you much. If you didn't commit the crime but happened to be there, then perhaps cooperating with the police to catch the real perpetrator would preclude being forced to scan your finger to prove something that you've already claimed when cooperating with the police to solve such a heinous crime, whatever that crime might be.

For the average non-criminal, the likelihood of ever being both falsely accused and falsely convicted based on evidence from an iPhone is almost infinitesimally small. Considering that if you didn't do the crime, if anything the phone should exonerate you.

The fairly rare cases of something 'bad' happening and getting falsely accused shouldn't be the basis of making tech decisions. A similar logic would compel us to never ride in a car, since the threat profile of an auto fatality is much higher than that of being forced to incriminate yourself with an iPhone. Decisions should be based on a risk management profile. If you tend to hang out with criminals, then your risk management profile would be different than someone who works at home and only goes to the gym once in awhile. And if you are a criminal, you'd be foolish to use any identifiable electronics devices at all. Your retired aunt Sarah who hangs out at the hair salon and church food pantry would hardly need to be as paranoid as a guy who's good friend is an ecstasy dealer. There's no reason worry about that exceptionally rare situation where you suddenly find yourself in the middle of a real-life Law and Order episode. There are plenty if other, more realistic things to worry about in terms of digital security than being forced to fingerprint in a courtroom.

Re: Apple’s Fingerprint ID May Mean You Can’t ‘Take the Fifth’

#118

Post by briandear »

adamconroy wrote: post #85
crazygringo wrote: post #37

The way everyone's talking, you'd think Apple was taking away the four-digit PIN! But they're not... The fingerprint ID is just another option , which you don't have to use . So titles like this are just incorrect. Fingerprint ID isn't taking away any of your rights, because you can still use the PIN just like you always have . I mean seriously, what the heck is going on here? Why on earth are people getting worked u…

I think the problem might be that you are secretly 'forced' to use it. What if NSA / govt tells apple to start harvesting all fingerprints of all users

And what would they do with that data?

Re: Apple’s Fingerprint ID May Mean You Can’t ‘Take the Fifth’

#119

Post by DanBC »

benologist wrote: post #108
DanBC wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that people are making idiotic claims But did you know how many fingerprints are currently being gathered and kept by US government? Here's a 2008 article. ( http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/03/25/us-security-finger... ) They take a lot of fingerprints, but don't seem to catch many people. > The U.S. government has been collecting digital fingerprints and photographs of nearly all non-citizens aged 14 and…

The reason they don't catch many people is because they're fingerprinting tourists and most likely first time visitors to the US. I'm surprised they caught anyone at all.

They're fingerprinting everyone who isn't a US citizen who enters the US.

Repeat visitors are fingerprinted on each visit.

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